ANNOUNCER: THIS PROGRAM HAS BEEN MADE POSSIBLE
BY THE FRIENDS AND PARTNERS OF JOYCE MEYER MINISTRIES.
KAY: THE SUICIDE, WE WERE JUST
INSTANTLY THRUST INTO THIS WORLD OF ALL THESE
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: "WHY?
I TRIED TO TALK HIM OFF THE LEDGE HUNDREDS OF TIMES,
AND I WAS ABLE TO.
WHY COULDN'T I THAT NIGHT?"
[MUSIC]
JOYCE: YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOMEONE WATCHING ME
RIGHT NOW THAT'S THINKING ABOUT SUICIDE.
AND WHETHER YOU THINK, OR IN YOUR PAIN,
OR THAT THE WORLD WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT YOU,
I REALLY WANNA TELL YOU TODAY THAT SUICIDE IS NOT THE ANSWER.
STAY WITH ME, AND I HAVE SOME THINGS TO SHARE WITH YOU,
AND A COUPLE OF GUESTS THAT I THINK YOU WILL FIND
VERY EYE OPENING.
BUT FIRST, WHERE AN YOU FIND TRUE HOPE?
JOYCE: JEREMIAH 29:11: "'FOR I KNOW THE THOUGHTS
AND PLANS THAT I HAVE FOR YOU,' SAYS THE LORD,
'THOUGHTS AND PLANS FOR WELFARE AND PEACE
AND NOT FOR EVIL, TO GIVE YOU HOPE
IN YOUR FINAL OUTCOME.'" GOD HAS A PLAN FOR YOUR GOOD,
AND I JUST WANNA ENCOURAGE YOU TONIGHT THAT EVEN IF
YOU'VE MADE MISTAKES, IF YOU'VE GONE
IN WRONG DIRECTIONS, IF YOU LOOK BACK AND YOU THINK,
"WELL, IF ONLY I WOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT,"
OR, "IF ONLY I WOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT,"
OR, "GEE, I WISH I WOULD HAVE DONE THAT,"
OR, "I WISH I WOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT,"
INSTEAD OF SPENDING ALL YOUR NOW TIME
REGRETTING SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN'T GO BACK
AND DO ANYTHING ABOUT, COME ON.
I SAID, "INSTEAD OF SPENDING ALL YOUR NOW TIME GOING BACK
AND REGRETTING SOMETHING YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT,"
WHY NOT ASK GOD TO TAKE ALL THAT STUFF
AND LET IT MAKE YOU SMARTER?
YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING YOU GO THROUGH GIVES YOU EXPERIENCE.
I DON'T LOVE GETTING EXPERIENCE, BUT I LOVE HAVING EXPERIENCE.
[AUDIENCE LAUGHING]
JOYCE: HOW MANY OF US HAVE SAID,
"IF I COULD ONLY GO BACK AND DO THINGS OVER
KNOWING WHAT I KNOW NOW"?
BUT SEE, WE CAN'T DO THAT.
HOWEVER, WE CAN LET WHAT WE LEARN
AS WE GO THROUGH THINGS BENEFIT US IN THE FUTURE
AND BENEFIT EVERYBODY ELSE.
SO, STOP THINKIN' THAT YOUR LIFE IS OVER, THAT YOU'VE RUINED IT,
THAT NOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO TAKE SECOND BEST
THE REST OF YOUR LIFE BECAUSE YOU'VE MISSED
GOD'S BEST FOR YOU.
GOD HAS A GOOD PLAN, AND HE'S NEVER CHANGED
HIS MIND.
AND ALL YOU HAVE TO DO, BE LIKE JACOB.
"GOD, I AM NOT GONNA LET YOU GO UNTIL YOU BLESS ME."
YOU KNOW, I LOVE TO TALK ABOUT HOPE BECAUSE I DON'T REALLY
THINK WE KNOW WHAT IT IS.
I TALKED ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT LAST NIGHT.
AND HOPE IS NOT, "WELL, YOU KNOW,
I JUST HOPE SOMETHIN' HAPPENS."
HOPE IS AN EXPECTATION THAT SOMETHING GOOD
IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
AND SEE, YOU CAN DO THAT ON PURPOSE.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO WAIT TO FEEL SOMETHING.
YOU CAN SAY TONIGHT, "I AM GOING TO CHANGE
MY ATTITUDE FROM A HOPELESS ATTITUDE
TO A HOPEFUL ATTITUDE, AND I AM GONNA KEEP BELIEVING
THAT SOMETHING GOOD IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO ME
UNTIL I SEE IT TAKE PLACE."
[AUDIENCE APPLAUDING]
JOYCE: LISTEN, I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO GO
THROUGH HARD THINGS.
I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO HAVE SO MANY BAD THINGS HAPPEN
IN A ROW THAT YOU JUST, YOU'RE ALMOST AFRAID
TO EXPECT ANYTHING GOOD BECAUSE YOU JUST DON'T WANNA BE
DISAPPOINTED ONE MORE TIME, AMEN?
AUDIENCE: AMEN.
JOYCE: AND, BOY, THE DEVIL LOVES IT WHEN WE GET HOPELESS,
WHEN WE BEGIN TO THINK THAT WE'VE JUST MADE
TOO MANY MISTAKES TO EVER RECOVER.
BUT LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHIN'.
NOBODY CAN OUT-SIN GOD'S GOODNESS.
[AUDIENCE APPLAUDING]
JOYCE: DID YOU HEAR ME?
THERE'S NO PIT SO DEEP THAT HE CAN'T REACH DOWN IN IT
AND GET YOU OUT.
AND GOD LOVES YOU, AND HE WANTS A CLOSE, INTIMATE,
PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU.
JESUS DIDN'T DIE SO WE COULD ALL JUST HAVE
SOME BRAND OF RELIGION.
HE WANTS TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP, A PERSONAL, IN-YOUR-FACE,
IN-YOUR-LIFE-EVERY-DAY RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU.
AND GOD IS A GOD OF RESTORATION, AND THERE'S NOTHING IN YOUR LIFE
THAT HE CANNOT RESTORE, AMEN?
[AUDIENCE APPLAUDING]
JOYCE: SO, HOW 'BOUT IF WE HAVE A NEW ATTITUDE?
"TODAY IS THE FIRST DAY OF THE RESET OF MY WONDERFUL LIFE
THAT GOD HAS PLANNED FOR ME.
AND I'M GONNA LET GO OF WHAT LIES BEHIND,
AND I'M GONNA PRESS ON TO THE GOOD THINGS
THAT ARE AHEAD," AMEN?
[AUDIENCE APPLAUDING]
JOYCE: WHOO.
JOYCE: WELL, NO MATTER HOW YOU FEEL,
OR EVEN WHAT NEGATIVE THOUGHTS YOU'RE HEARING RIGHT NOW,
REMEMBER, THE TRUTH IS, IS THAT GOD DOES HAVE
A GOOD PLAN FOR YOUR LIFE.
SO, JOINING ME RIGHT NOW IS LICENSED MARRIAGE AND FAMILY
THERAPIST, DR. LINDA MINTLE, TO DISCUSS HOW SUICIDE IS NOT
THE ANSWER TO YOUR PROBLEM.
HOW DO THOUGHTS AFFECT ALL THIS?
AND IS THINKING RIGHT ON PURPOSE PART OF THE ANSWER?
LINDA: ASSUMPTIONS AND BELIEFS THAT YOU HOLD
ABOUT THE WORLD, IF YOU DON'T HAVE HOPE,
IF YOU'RE THINKING, "I'M NEVER GONNA GET
OUT OF THIS.
GOD DOESN'T CARE ABOUT ME.
GOD HAS ABANDONED ME.
GOD HAS REJECTED ME.
I'M NOT WORTH ANYTHING."
ALL OF THOSE TYPES OF BELIEFS THAT WE KNOW ARE BASED
IN THE ENEMY, IN TERMS OF HIS NEGATIVITY 'CAUSE HE WANTS
TO STEAL, KILL, AND DESTROY.
THAT'S HIS GOAL.
SO, AS WE BEGIN TO HAVE THOSE KINDS OF BELIEFS,
THAT "MAYBE GOD ISN'T PRESENT, HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT ME,"
THEN THAT TRANSLATES INTO OUR THOUGHTS.
AND OUR THOUGHTS BECOME VERY NEGATIVE THEN WITH,
"IT DOESN'T MATTER.
WHATEVER I DO, IT'S NOT GONNA GET BETTER."
AND THEN THAT INFLUENCES OUR EMOTIONS WHERE THEN WE FEEL SAD,
WE FEEL DOWN, WE FEEL DEPRESSED.
AND THEN THAT CHANGES OUR BEHAVIOR,
SO WE BEGIN TO ISOLATE MORE.
WE BEGIN TO AVOID PEOPLE.
WE BEGIN TO, YOU KNOW, CLAM UP AND KINDA GO INTERNAL,
WHICH IS ALWAYS DANGEROUS, TO ISOLATE.
THAT'S ONE OF THE ENEMY'S STRATEGIES.
AND THEN THAT INFLUENCES OUR PERCEPTION, AND IT BECOMES
THIS VICIOUS CYCLE WHERE OUR THOUGHTS,
OUR EMOTIONS, OUR BEHAVIORS, OUR PERCEPTION JUST GO ROUND
AND ROUND, AND WE BEGIN TO GET NARROW AND NARROWER
INTO THIS NARROW TUNNEL, WHERE WE THINK,
"THERE'S NO WAY OUT."
AND THE RESEARCH SHOWS, AND IT'S NOT SPIRITUAL RESEARCH,
BUT IT SHOWS THAT HOPE IS THE ONE FACTOR THAT
KEEPS PEOPLE MOVING THROUGH, WHATEVER IT IS.
IF IT'S CHRONIC ILLNESS, IF IT'S A TERRIBLE SITUATION,
IF IT'S A HURRICANE, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
HOPE IS WHAT PEOPLE NEED BECAUSE IT INFLUENCES ALL THOSE THINGS
I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT AND KEEPS PEOPLE
IN A POSITIVE FRAME OF MIND.
JOYCE: I'VE STARTED SOMETHIN' THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS,
AND I THINK ONE OF SATAN'S FAVORITE LIES IS WHAT I CALL,
"THE NEVER LIE."
"THIS IS NEVER GOING TO GET ANY BETTER.
IT'S NEVER GOING TO CHANGE."
YOU KNOW, AND THEN YOU'LL THINK, "I CAN'T STAND THIS.
IF THIS IS THE WAY MY LIFE IS FOREVER,
THEN I CAN'T STAND THIS."
BUT WE'VE PROVEN THAT YOU CAN INTERRUPT YOUR OWN THOUGHTS
BY SAYING SOMETHING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH THAT'S POSITIVE.
AND SO, BECAUSE YOU LISTEN TO WHAT YOU SAY, AND THEN
THAT HELPS RENEW YOUR MIND.
SO, ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE BEEN SAYIN'
WHEN THINGS SEEM LIKE THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO END IS,
"THIS IS GOING TO END WELL."
OR I'LL SAY, "THIS TIME NEXT WEEK,
I'LL HAVE AN ANSWER TO THIS."
OR, YOU KNOW, "TOMORROW, THIS IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT."
YOU CAN'T LET THE ENEMY CONVINCE YOU THAT WHATEVER'S GOING ON
IN YOUR LIFE RIGHT NOW CANNOT BE FIXED,
AND IT'S NEVER EVER, EVER GOING TO CHANGE.
LINDA: IT WAS SO GOOD THAT YOU MADE THE POINT
ABOUT EXPECTATIONS THAT "THIS TOO WILL PASS."
WHEN I GOT MARRIED, MY MOTHER-IN-LAW SAID TO ME
ONE TIME, "ALWAYS THE BEGINNING
OF THE SCRIPTURE, 'AND THIS TOO SHALL PASS.'"
SHE SAYS, "WHATEVER COMES UP IN YOUR LIFE
WITH YOUR MARRIAGE OR ANY KIND OF PROBLEM, THIS TOO WILL PASS."
AND WE KNOW, AGAIN, BASED ON RESEARCH,
THAT IF YOU HAVE AN EXPECTATION THAT SOMETHING WILL TURN OUT
POSITIVE, AND YOU HOLD ON TO THAT EXPECTATION, AGAIN,
IT CHANGES THE BRAIN IN A POSITIVE WAY, AND IT CALMS
ALL THAT STUFF DOWN THAT YOU WANNA CALM DOWN.
IT CALMS DOWN THE STRESS, AND IT LETS YOU THINK CLEARLY
FOR THE MOMENT BECAUSE IN THE MOMENT,
WHAT'S HAPPENING TO PEOPLE IS, THEY'RE VERY IMPULSIVE,
AND THAT'S WHEN THEY WANNA TAKE THEIR LIVES.
AND YOU'VE GOTTA STOP THAT IMPULSIVITY AND HELP PEOPLE
THINK AND KNOW, "THERE IS A WAY OF ESCAPE."
AND YOU HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE, JOYCE, THAT ARE WALKING AROUND
AND FEELING LIKE, "WHAT'S MY PURPOSE?
WHAT MEANING DO I HAVE IN LIFE?" YOU KNOW, THEY BELIEVE LIES THAT
"IF I WAS GONE, IF I'M GONE, MAYBE MY FAMILY
WOULD DO BETTER."
MAYBE THEY'VE GOTTEN INTO SOME KIND OF FINANCIAL DEBT
THAT THEY FEEL LIKE THEY CAN'T GET OUT OF.
A LOT OF TIMES, WE SEE SUICIDE AS A RESULT
OF RELATIONSHIPS BREAKING UP.
LESS THAN 50% OF THE TIME, IT IS DUE TO SOME KIND
OF PSYCHIATRIC CONDITION, LIKE DEPRESSION OR SOME KIND OF,
MAYBE, PSYCHOSIS OR A DEPRESSION RELATED TO
BIPOLAR DISORDER OR SOMETHING.
JOYCE: SO, THAT'S 50% OF THE TIME.
LINDA: LESS THAN 50.
JOYCE: OH, LESS THAN 50.
LINDA: YEAH, WHICH I THINK IS SURPRISING TO PEOPLE 'CAUSE
USUALLY WE ASSOCIATE DEPRESSION WITH SUICIDE.
AND THERE IS A CORRELATION THERE,
BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER FACTORS
THAT I WAS MENTIONING, LIKE FINANCIAL DEBT,
AND RELATIONSHIP BREAKUPS, AND BULLYING, AND COMPARING
YOURSELVES ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND FEELING LIKE YOUR LIFE
ISN'T MEASURING UP, MAYBE ATTAINING SORT OF A SENSE
OF THAT, "I'VE GOTTA BE HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL
IN EVERYTHING THAT I DO."
REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE RESILIENCY OF YOUNG PEOPLE
THAT WE'RE SEEING NOW.
WE'VE GOT TEENAGERS AND YOUNG PEOPLE
IN UNIVERSITIES WHERE THEY'RE OFFENDED BY EVERYTHING
THAT EVER HAPPENS.
THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO COPE.
SO, THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO COPE WITH FAILURE.
AND THEN, WHEN THEY FAIL, IT'S ALL OVER SOCIAL MEDIA.
SO THERE'S SHAME, THERE'S HUMILIATION.
AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM IN LIFE
WHERE YOU'VE GOT ELDERLY PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY AT RISK
FOR SUICIDE WHERE MAYBE THEY'VE LOST A PARTNER.
MAYBE THEY'RE FEELING LIKE THEIR LIFE DIDN'T MEASURE UP
TO WHAT THEY WANTED.
OR THE CONCERN THAT I HAVE WITH THE TREND
OF PHYSICIAN-ASSISTED SUICIDE, WHERE THERE'S STARTING TO SAY,
"YOU KNOW WHAT?
IF THERE'S NOTHING MORE, IF THERE'S NOTHING ELSE
FOR ME TO LIVE FOR, THERE'S NOTHING AFTER THIS LIFE,
WHY DON'T I JUST PUT AN END TO MY LIFE AND GET
OUT OF THE PAIN THAT I FEEL?" JOYCE: I'M SURE
WITH CHRONIC PAIN IN THEIR BODY, TOO,
MANY TIMES JUST FEEL LIKE THEY CAN'T TAKE THAT ANYMORE.
I KNOW EVEN HAVING HAD SOME PROBLEMS WITH MY BACK,
IF I HAVE A COUPLE OF BAD WEEKS, I MEAN, IT JUST WEARS YOU OUT.
AND SO, I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT IT'S LIKE FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE
SOME KIND OF SERIOUS PAIN ALL THE TIME.
LINDA: YEAH, AND WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH CHRONIC ILLNESS,
WE KNOW FROM-- NOW WE CAN LOOK INSIDE THE BRAIN
AND WE CAN SEE WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE BRAIN.
AND WE KNOW THAT ACTUAL STRUCTURES IN THE BRAIN CHANGE
WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH SOMETHING
THAT IS A CHRONIC STRESS.
SO, IN MY WORLD, WE CALL THAT AN,
"ALLOSTATIC LOAD," WHERE THE STRESS
JUST IS UNREMITTENT.
IT DOESN'T STOP.
YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW YOU'RE GONNA GET OUT OF IT,
LIKE A CHRONIC ILLNESS.
AND SO, A LOT OF TIMES WHEN PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING WITH THAT,
THE BRAIN CHANGES THAT HAPPEN, THERE ARE PARTS OF THE BRAIN
THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH MAKING DECISIONS AND PROBLEM-SOLVING,
THE IMPULSIVITY PARTS OF THE BRAIN THAT ACTUALLY SHRINK.
AND THERE ARE PARTS OF THE BRAIN THAT ARE INVOLVED IN LEARNING
AND MEMORY THAT ACTUALLY SHRINK.
AND THEN, THE FEELING PARTS OF THE BRAIN THAT ARE THE ONES
THAT MAKE YOU FEEL THIS SADNESS AND THIS INTENSE EMOTION,
THOSE PARTS GET OVERLY ACTIVE, AND THEY ACTUALLY HIJACK
SOME OF THE OTHER PARTS OF THE BRAIN.
SO, PEOPLE ARE MORE IMPULSIVE AS A RESULT OF THAT.
THEIR EMOTIONS ARE TAKING OVER, AND THEY'RE NOT THINKING CLEARLY
A LOT OF TIMES.
JOYCE: YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT,
I WONDER HOW MANY SERMONS ARE PREACHED FROM THE PULPIT
EACH YEAR ON SUICIDE.
LINDA: IT IS NOT TALKED ABOUT IN THE CHURCH, AND THERE'S SHAME
AND THE GUILT AROUND IT, THE SORT OF HUMILIATION
THAT PEOPLE FEEL WITH IT, WE NEED TO HELP THEM
WITH THAT AND NOT HAVE THAT STIGMA SO THAT PEOPLE CAN
OPENLY TALK ABOUT THEIR PAIN.
WE HAVE TO LOOK AND SAY, "WHY ARE PEOPLE DOING THIS?
WHAT IS THE ROOT OF THESE PROBLEMS?"
ONCE WE GET TO THE ROOT OF THIS STUFF,
AND THERE IS A PHYSICAL ROOT OFTEN.
THERE'S AN EMOTIONAL ROOT, THERE'S A RELATIONAL ROOT,
AND THERE'S A SPIRITUAL ROOT.
AND SO, IF YOU DON'T ADDRESS ALL PARTS OF THAT,
IF YOU DON'T ADDRESS LIFESTYLE ISSUES
THAT ARE CREATING PEOPLE-- IF YOUR LIFESTYLE,
IF YOU'RE NOT TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF,
IF YOU'RE NOT GETTING GOOD SLEEP,
YOU'RE MORE PRONE TO MEMORY PROBLEMS
AND POOR DECISION MAKING, ALL KINDS OF THINGS.
IF YOU'RE NOT EATING WELL, THEN YOUR BRAIN ISN'T WORKING
AS WELL AS IT COULD AND YOU'RE NOT FEELING THAT ENERGY.
AND WHAT ALL OF THAT DOES IS, IT RUNS YOU DOWN AND IT PUTS YOU
IN A POSITION, THEN, WHEN NEGATIVITY STARTS
AND YOU GET STRESS FROM ALL ANGLES OF YOUR LIFE,
YOU START TO THINK, "MAN, I'M JUST EXHAUSTED.
I CAN'T DEAL WITH THIS.
WHY AM I DOING THIS?
WHAT'S THE POINT?
WHAT'S MY MEANING?
WHY AM I HERE?
WHAT'S THIS ABOUT?" AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT THE CHURCH COULD REALLY HELP WITH IS WE DO NOT HAVE
A THEOLOGY IN OUR CULTURE OF SUFFERING AND HOW TO DEAL
WITH PAIN AND DIFFICULTY.
BECAUSE GOD PROMISED HE WOULD BE WITH US THROUGH THE DIFFICULTY.
HE PROMISED HE WOULD GIVE US PEACE IN THE MIDDLE
OF LIFE'S STORMS, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE GOING
THROUGH A LOT OF PAIN.
HIS PROMISE IS TO BE WITH US AND TO GIVE US PEACE AND TO GET US
THROUGH TO THE OTHER SIDE.
JOYCE: WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE TO SOMEBODY
WATCHING RIGHT NOW?
AND I BELIEVE THERE'S LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN
AND ARE THINKING ABOUT COMMITTING SUICIDE.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM RIGHT NOW?
LINDA: I WOULD SAY THAT THE LIE THAT THEY'RE HEARING
IN THEIR HEAD THAT THERE IS NO HOPE,
THE VERY THING THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT,
THERE ALWAYS IS HOPE, THERE'S ALWAYS A WAY.
IT'S GETTING AHOLD OF THE RIGHT PEOPLE,
THE RIGHT PERSON THAT CAN HELP YOU, THE RIGHT PERSON
BEING GOD WHO CAN HELP YOU AND SPEAK INTO YOUR LIFE.
THERE REALLY IS AN ENEMY OF YOUR SOUL THAT IS TELLING YOU
TO BE IN DESPAIR AND THAT THERE'S NO WAY OUT.
SO, DON'T EVER BELIEVE THAT.
IF YOU CAN JUST HOLD ON TO THAT STRAND,
AND THEN GET SOMEBODY AROUND YOU.
TELL SOMEBODY, TELL SOMEBODY THAT YOU'RE FEELING
THE WAY YOU ARE.
GO GET HELP.
AND THERE IS A WAY TO HELP YOU AND GET OUT OF
THAT HORRIBLE PLACE OF DESPAIR.
JOYCE: THANK YOU, LINDA.
WE APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHT SO MUCH.
NOW, WHEN WE RETURN, WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS RECOVERING
FROM THE PAIN OF LOSING A LOVED ONE TO SUICIDE.
AND ALSO, IF YOU'RE STRUGGLING WITH SUICIDAL THOUGHTS,
THERE'S A NUMBER AT THE BOTTOM OF YOUR SCREEN.
TAKE A STEP TO GET THE HELP THAT YOU NEED.
YOU DO MATER, AND THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE
BECAUSE YOU'RE HERE.
FEMALE: IT'S A VERY LONELY AND DESOLATE PLACE, IT'S DARK.
FEMALE: I COME HOME AT THE END OF THE DAY
AND LAY ON THE COUCH AND CRY.
AND MY HUSBAND WOULD WALK UP TO ME AND SAY, "WHAT CAN I DO?"
AND I'D TELL HIM, "I DON'T KNOW."
FEMALE: IF I WASN'T HERE, I DON'T THINK
ANYBODY WOULD EVEN KNOW.
FEMALE: I HATED MYSELF.
FEMALE: I DIDN'T FEEL WORTHY AS A PARENT, A MOTHER.
FEMALE: NOBODY SAW WHAT WAS REALLY GOING ON ON THE INSIDE.
FEMALE: I HATED MYSELF, AND I BELIEVED
THAT I WASN'T WORTHY OF LOVE.
FEMALE: YOU KNOW, YOU ALWAYS WONDER
IF THERE'LL EVER BE JOY IN YOUR LIFE AGAIN.
JUST WAKE UP EVERY SINGLE DAY, WONDERING, "IS TODAY GONNA BE
THE DAY THAT I FEEL SET FREE?" FEMALE: I WAS COMPLETELY
FOCUSED ON MYSELF AND MY PAIN, AND I WAS JUST CONVINCED
THAT THE WORLD WAS GONNA BE A LOT BETTER WITHOUT ME.
MALE: LOTS OF REJECTION, LOTS OF, "WHAT'S WRONG WITH ME?"
KINDA STUFF GOIN' ON.
[MUSIC]
MALE: THE BEAUTIFUL THING ABOUT JESUS IS,
YOU CAN ACCESS HIM ANYTIME.
FEMALE: I OPENED THAT WORD.
I REMEMBERED ALL THE TRUTH.
FEMALE: I HAD TO REALLY BELIEVE
THAT HE HAD A PLAN FOR ME, AND THAT IT WAS MUCH BIGGER
THAN WHAT MY TEENAGER SELF COULD IMAGINE.
FEMALE: THERE'S ABSOLUTELY HOPE.
HE GAVE ME REST IN MY SOUL, AND HE GAVE ME THE PEACE
THAT I WAS LOOKING FOR.
FEMALE: THE PEACE OF GOD, IT PASSES ALL UNDERSTANDING.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES ARE,
IT CAN'T BE TAKEN AWAY.
THE HOPE IS UNSHAKEABLE.
FEMALE: IF I JUST TRUST HIM TO REMAIN LIVING
AND NOT TAKE MY LIFE.
FEMALE: HE KNOWS WHAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH.
HE WON'T LEAVE YOU.
HE WON'T FORSAKE YOU.
FEMALE: GOD CREATED ME FOR A PURPOSE,
AND HE DOES CARE ABOUT ME.
HE DOES USE MY LIFE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
I AM NECESSARY.
FEMALE: IT'S NOT THAT GOD'S ARM WAS LONG ENOUGH
TO GO DOWN THERE AND BRING ME UP OUT OF THAT PIT.
IT'S THAT GOD CAME DOWN AND SAT BESIDE ME IN THAT PIT.
I WAS NEVER ALONE.
[MUSIC]
JOYCE: WELL, TODAY, WE'RE REACHING OUT
TO THOSE DEALING WITH SUICIDAL THOUGHTS.
AS OVERWHELMING AS LIFE MAY FEEL RIGHT NOW, GOD CAN AND WILL
HELP YOU THROUGH YOUR STRUGGLE.
AND THAT'S THE SAME MESSAGE FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN PAIN
BECAUSE A LOVED ONE HAS COMMITTED SUICIDE.
KAY WARREN AND HER HUSBAND, PASTOR RICK WARREN,
UNDERSTAND THIS TERRIBLE LOSS.
SHE'S WITH US TO SHARE HER STORY AND HOW IT AFFECTED HER BELIEF
IN THE GOODNESS OF GOD.
WELL, KAY, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU,
THANK YOU FOR TRAVELING ALL THE WAY
FROM CALIFORNIA TO ST. LOUIS TO BE WITH US.
KAY: THANK YOU FOR THE INVITATION.
JOYCE: SO, WE KNOW THAT YOU HAVE A LOT TO SAY AND
A LOT OF FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE.
SO, TELL US ABOUT YOUR SON, MATTHEW.
KAY: MATTHEW WAS-- HE WAS 27 WHEN HE DIED,
AND WE LEARNED PRETTY EARLY ON THAT HE HAD A MENTAL ILLNESS.
HE WAS THE THIRD OF OUR CHILDREN,
AND WE KNEW HE WAS DIFFERENT FROM THE TIME
HE WAS JUST A TODDLER.
HE WAS THROW THE CANDYLAND GAME, AND CRY FOR HOURS,
AND YOU COULDN'T CONSOLE HIM, AND JUST THIS NEGATIVE MOOD.
AND WE JUST KEPT THINKING, "HE'LL GROW OUT OF IT,"
YOU KNOW?
WE KNEW HE WAS DIFFERENT THAN HIS OLDER BROTHER AND SISTER,
BUT IT JUST NEVER OCCURRED TO US THAT IT COULD BE
A MENTAL ILLNESS, 'CAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW CHILDREN
COULD EXPERIENCE MENTAL ILLNESS.
BUT HE WAS DIAGNOSED WITH DEPRESSION AT 7,
AND THEN JUST THIS SORTA LIST.
IT WENT FROM THERE TO BIPOLAR DISORDER TO OCD
TO MAJOR DEPRESSIVE TO SUICIDAL IDEATION TO--
I MEAN, IT JUST KEPT STACKING UP THESE THINGS, AND HE JUST LIVED
WITH TORMENT, REALLY TORTURE AND TORMENT FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS.
AND SADLY, ON APRIL 5, 2013, HE JUST HIT THAT WALL OF MENTAL
ILLNESS FOR THE LAST TIME, AND HE TOOK HIS LIFE.
AND IT WAS THE WORST DAY OF OUR LIVES.
I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THOUGH, IN SPITE OF THE FACT
THAT HE LIVED WITH A VERY TORTURED MIND AND
VERY DIFFICULT LIFE SITUATIONS, HE WAS SO FUNNY, CREATIVE,
AND COMPASSIONATE.
HE HAD SUCH A TENDER HEART FOR OTHER PEOPLE WHO HURT.
AFTER HE DIED, I'VE JUST HAD SO MANY PEOPLE
SEND ME NOTES AND LETTERS OF ENCOUNTERS THEY HAD WITH HIM.
EVEN AS HE WAS SUFFERING, HE WOULD REACH OUT
FOR THE PERSON IN THE ROOM WHO WAS HAVING A HARD TIME,
OR HE WAS THE PERSON WHO WOULD OFFER A KIND WORD.
SO, HE WAS AMAZING, HILARIOUSLY FUNNY, CREATIVE,
GOOFY, AND YET SO FULL OF PAIN.
JOYCE: SO, TELL US ABOUT THE AFTERMATH.
HOW DID YOU GET OVER IT?
WHAT DID YOU GO THROUGH?
KAY: WELL, I'M NOT OVER IT.
YOU DON'T GET OVER IT.
I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS THAT I'D LEARNED
AND I'D LOVE TO PASS ON TO YOUR LISTENERS IS,
YOU DON'T GET OVER IT.
YOU GET THROUGH IT.
AND ON THE OTHER HAND, I MEAN, I DON'T WANNA GET OVER
MISSING MY SON.
HE WAS MY CHILD.
HE GREW IN MY BODY.
I GAVE BIRTH TO HIM.
I NURSED HIM.
I NURTURED HIM.
I CARED FOR HIM FOR 27 YEARS.
I CAN'T GET OVER THE FACT THAT HE DIED.
I THINK ANYBODY WHO'S LOST A CHILD WILL TELL YOU,
"THIS IS NOT SOMETHING YOU GET OVER.
YOU LEARN TO LIVE WITH."
LIFE CAN BE GOOD AGAIN, BUT LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHIN',
GRIEF IS THE HARDEST WORK I HAVE EVER DONE.
I HAVE NEVER WORKED AS HARD AS MOVING THROUGH GRIEF AS I AM,
AS RICK AND I AND OUR FAMILY ARE TODAY.
IT'S CATASTROPHIC.
WHEN SUICIDE OCCURS, THERE'S TRAUMA.
THE PERSON DIED SOMETIMES VIOLENTLY, SOMETIMES,
OBVIOUSLY UNNATURALLY.
THEY KILLED THEMSELVES, SO THAT'S TRAUMATIC.
SO, WITH SUICIDE, THERE ARE THESE LAYERS OF TRAUMA
AND ANGUISH AND GUILT THAT DON'T ALWAYS ACCOMPANY
OTHER KINDS OF DEATH.
AND SO, WITH SUICIDE, WE WERE JUST INSTANTLY THRUST
INTO THIS WORLD, ALL THESE UNANSWERED QUESTIONS:
"WHY?
I TRIED TO TALK HIM OFF THE LEDGE HUNDREDS OF TIMES,
AND I WAS ABLE TO.
WHY COULDN'T I THAT NIGHT?
WAS HE THINKING ABOUT US, YOU KNOW,
AT THE MOMENT THAT HE DIED?
DID HE SUFFER?
WILL WE EVER KNOW ALL THE REASONS WHY THAT DAY?"
THERE'S JUST SO MANY UNANSWERED--
JOYCE: "IS THERE SOMETHING I COULD HAVE DONE?"
KAY: YEAH, "SHOULD WE HAVE DONE THIS?
SHOULD WE HAVE DONE THAT?
WHAT IF WE HADN'T DONE THIS?" AND IT JUST COMES WITH GUILT
THAT'S REAL OR NOT REAL.
IT COMES WITH TRAUMA.
IT COMES WITH ISOLATION.
JOYCE: WAS IT HARDER EVEN FOR YOU AS A WELL-KNOWN
PASTOR'S WIFE AND PASTOR OF A LARGE CHURCH?
JOYCE: YES, IN THE SENSE THAT MATTHEW'S DEATH WAS A, YOU KNOW,
IT WAS A SCROLLING HEADLINE ON CNN, YOU KNOW?
SO, EVERYBODY KNEW REALLY QUICKLY.
THERE WAS NO CHANCE FOR ANY PRIVACY OR PRIVATE GRIEVING.
WE WERE JUST IMMEDIATELY IN THE PUBLIC EYE.
SO, THAT WAS DIFFICULT, BUT WE'VE MADE A PRACTICE.
WE'VE BEEN IN MINISTRY 43 YEARS, AND WE'VE JUST MADE IT
A PRACTICE TO LIVE OUR LIVES AS AUTHENTICALLY AS WE CAN,
KNOWING THAT PEOPLE ARE WATCHING,
AND THAT PEOPLE ARE OBSERVING.
AND SO, WE FIGURED, "OKAY, THIS IS NOT THE WAY
WE WOULD HAVE CHOSEN TO GRIEVE, BUT HERE WE ARE
IN THE PUBLIC EYE.
SO, HOW CAN WE USE OUR GRIEF AND OUR SUFFERING TO MAYBE
SHOW OTHER PEOPLE HOW YOU LIVE THROUGH SOMETHING
AS DEVASTATING AS THIS?
HOW DO YOU TRUST GOD IN THE FACE OF YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE
COMING TRUE?
HOW DO YOU BUILD?
HOW DO YOU REBUILD HOPE?" I WOULDN'T SAY THAT WE--
WE DIDN'T CHOOSE, OBVIOUSLY, WE DIDN'T CHOOSE
TO HAVE IT BE PUBLIC LIKE THAT, BUT IT SINCE IT WAS, IT'S LIKE,
"OKAY, GOD, HOW DO YOU WANT TO USE US
AND OUR FAMILY IN THIS GRIEVING PROCESS TO STILL REFLECT
THAT WE TRUST YOU?
WE HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS, A LOT OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS,
BUT WE TRUST YOU."
JOYCE: I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST REDEMPTIVE THINGS
THAT A PERSON CAN DO, IS TO TAKE THE PAIN TO GOD,
NOT ONLY ASK HIM TO HEAL YOU, BUT TO USE IT
TO HELP SOMEBODY ELSE.
I THINK THAT THAT, IT NOT ONLY HELPS YOU,
BUT IT DOES END UP UNDOING SATAN'S PLAN TO DESTROY YOU,
AND YOU END UP BEING ABLE TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE WITH IT.
KAY: THAT IS PART OF ALL OF WHAT I THINK HE PROMISES
WHEN HE SAYS, "I GIVE YOU BEAUTY FOR ASHES."
BECAUSE THERE IS HEALING OVER TIME, BUT THERE'S ALSO--
PART OF THE BEAUTY IS KNOWING THAT YOU CAN HELP OTHER PEOPLE,
THAT YOU CAN GIVE OTHER PEOPLE COURAGE TO FACE
THEIR DIFFICULT TIMES, THEIR HARD TIMES.
AND EVERY TIME I TELL MATTHEW'S STORY--I MEAN, I'LL LEAVE HERE,
AND I'LL GO AND I'LL CRY BECAUSE EVERY TIME,
TO TELL HIS STORY IS PAINFUL, BUT EVERY TIME IS ALSO A PART
OF THE HEALING, TO TALK ABOUT THE HOPE,
TO TALK ABOUT HOW GOD IS WITH US AND THAT GOD CAN BE
WITH SOMEONE ELSE IN THEIR SUFFERING.
AND WHEN PEOPLE TELL ME THAT-- I KNOW YOU EXPERIENCED THIS.
ALL THE PAIN AND SORROW IN YOUR LIFE, WHEN PEOPLE SAY,
"OH, BUT, JOYCE, WHEN YOU SHARE AND YOU TELL ME
HOW GOD'S WORKED IN YOUR LIFE, IT GIVES ME STRENGTH."
JOYCE: OH, YEAH, ALL THE TIME.
KAY: AND SO, IT'S THE SAME FOR US.
PEOPLE SAY, "HEARING YOUR STORY, HEARING THAT YOU'VE NOT WALKED
AWAY FROM GOD MAKES ME FEEL LIKE I CAN DO THIS IN MY LIFE
WITH MY PAIN, MY SUFFERING."
JOYCE: AND I THINK EVEN TALKIN' ABOUT THIS,
IT WILL HELP OTHER PEOPLE WITH OTHER KINDS OF PAIN.
KAY: EXACTLY.
JOYCE: YOU KNOW, GOD NEVER PROMISES US NO PAIN,
AND SO, OFTEN, WHEN PEOPLE HAVE
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS AND THINGS THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND,
THEY TURN AWAY FROM GOD, BUT WHAT DO WE TURN TO?
KAY: THERE'S NOTHING.
THERE'S NOTHING REALLY.
JOYCE: WHY?
KAY: AND THERE'S NO ONE.
JOYCE: YEAH, THERE'S NO ONE.
GOD'S THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN HELP YOU,
SO YOU WANNA DRAW CLOSER TO HIM, NOT GET MAD AT HIM
AND PUSH AWAY FROM HIM.
KAY: FOR ME, IT HAS BEEN STRUGGLING
IN THE EMBRACE OF GOD.
THE ONLY PLACE THAT'S REALLY SAFE ENOUGH
FOR ME TO SAY EVERYTHING I WANNA SAY,
TO LET OUT ALL MY DOUBTS, MY ANGER, MY CONFUSION,
MY DISAPPOINTMENT THAT GOD DIDN'T HEAL MATTHEW HERE,
THE ONLY SAFE PLACE FOR ME TO REALLY DO THAT IS
IN THE EMBRACE OF JESUS.
AND IN THE EMBRACE OF JESUS CHRIST, WE CAN BEAT
OUR FISTS ON HIS CHEST.
WE CAN CRY.
WE CAN SOB.
WE CAN MOAN.
WE CAN WEEP.
WE CAN SCREAM IF WE NEED TO, BUT IT'S RUNNING TO HIM
AND BEING IN THAT EMBRACE.
HE CAN HANDLE IT.
HE CAN HANDLE ALL OF MY PAIN.
HE CAN HANDLE ALL OF MY QUESTIONS,
ALL OF MY CONFUSION.
SO, I MADE A CHOICE TO RUN TO HIM AND NOT AWAY.
FEMALE: WHEN I FOUND GOD AND I UNDERSTOOD THAT DEEP
PATERNAL LOVE HE HAS FOR US, THAT'S WHEN THAT CHOICE
WASN'T THERE ANYMORE.
FEMALE: ONCE I GOT SAVED, THE MEANING OF LIFE
CHANGED FOR ME, AND I KNEW THAT, YOU KNOW,
"MY LIFE WAS MEANT FOR SOMETHIN' MORE."
FEMALE: I COULDN'T DO IT WITHOUT JESUS.
I JUST ASKED HIM TO DO IT WITH ME.
"DO LIFE WITH ME, GOD."
FEMALE: AND HE WILL PROVIDE THE PEOPLE
AND THE RESOURCES TO HELP YOU.
FEMALE: EVEN WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE NOTHING
AND YOU FEEL SO ALONE, THERE'S STILL LIGHT.
FEMALE: JESUS, HE WILL GIVE YOU PEACE.
HE HAS COMPASSION FOR YOU.
MALE: YOU KNOW, I HAVE A HOPE NOW THAT I DIDN'T HAVE BEFORE.
FEMALE: SO, IF YOU FEEL STILL THAT YOU ARE ALONE
AND DESPERATE, WITH NOBODY AROUND,
YOU STILL HAVE CHRIST.
PLEASE CLING TO HIM.
HE IS THE ONE WHO WILL HELP YOU.
FEMALE: DON'T MAKE THE FINAL DECISION.
GIVE JESUS A CHANCE.
FEMALE: NO MATTER WHAT YOUR EARTHLY FATHER WAS LIKE,
GOD IS A GOOD FATHER, AND HE HAS A GOOD PLAN FOR YOU.
SO, DON'T QUIT, DON'T GIVE UP.
FEMALE: ONE OF MY BIGGEST THINGS THAT I'VE ALWAYS
LEANED ON IS WHEN JESUS SAYS, "I WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU
NOR FORSAKE YOU."
AND NO MATTER IF I FEEL LIKE I'M THE ONLY ONE, I KNOW I HAVE
ONE MORE PERSON BY MY SIDE.
FEMALE: JESUS SAVED ME.
HE SAVED ME A SECOND TIME.
I HAVE A NEW LIFE NOW.
[MUSIC]
JOYCE: WELL, I PRAY THAT YOU ARE FEELING BETTER,
BUT EVEN IF YOU'RE STILL FEELING THE WAY YOU DID
AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS PROGRAM,
I PROMISE YOU, THERE IS HOPE, AND SUICIDE IS NOT THE ANSWER.
THERE'S INFORMATION AT THE BOTTOM OF YOUR SCREEN,
SO TAKE A STEP AND GET THE HELP THAT YOU NEED TO GET
BEYOND THE PAIN OF YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES.
AND TODAY, WE WOULD LIKE TO SEND YOU A FREE GIFT.
IT'S A BOOKLET ON, "OVERCOMING DEPRESSION,"
AND WE REALLY THINK THAT THIS IS GONNA BE A BLESSING
TO YOU AND HELP YOU.
SO, ASK FOR YOUR COPY RIGHT AWAY.
ANNOUNCER: WE HOPE YOU HAVE ENJOYED TODAY'S PROGRAM.
PLEASE CONTACT US OR VISIT JOYCEMEYER.ORG TO SHARE
YOUR PRAYER REQUESTS, SEE THE CONFERENCE SCHEDULE,
OR PARTNER WITH US IN SHARING CHRIST
AND LOVING PEOPLE ALL ACROSS THE GLOBE.
ANNOUNCER: THIS PROGRAM HAS BEEN MADE POSSIBLE
BY THE FRIENDS AND PARTNERS OF JOYCE MEYER MINISTRIES.
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