OK great. Hey it's Clark here
with Nick Campesi from
Jelly Bean Rubber Mulch.
Nic how are you?
Fantastic, how are you Clark?
Oh I'm doing excellent thank you.
I appreciate you taking the time to
answer a few questions today about
the warranty on
Jelly Bean. But first let's start
with this, can you tell me a little bit
about the Jelly Bean Rubber Mulch product.
What it is and why it's unique?
Yes. So the big difference
of the Jelly Bean Rubber Mulch product
over the other rubber mulch products
that are in the marketplace is that we
do not use tire rubber.
Everyone else is using an old dirty tire
where we're using pre-consumer
virgin rubber.
That is initially compounded
for a child to play on.
So these are rubber tiles that are safety
tiles that are, we're taking the excess
the trimmings the tiles that weren't
perfect or didn't meet spec,
we run them through a chipper.
And that's what we make our product
out of. So we're getting a product that
is guaranteed 100 percent wire-free
guaranteed not to have any red list chemicals
or any contaminants that could
be found in products like tire mulch
from the roadway.
And there's also
paint that's on the product so
you don't have to worry about paint coming off
on the on the kids like you
do with the tire mulch.
So it's just a much cleaner alternative
and it comes in at less than half the price
of a unitary surface
such like a pour-in-place
or turf and so it's so really
good sweet spot product in the marketplace to
get good clean
surfacing for kids to play on.
Absolutely absolutely.
And what is the warranty on the
product?
So we warranty the Jelly Bean Rubber Mulch for 20
years against the degradation
of the rubber.
Oh wow so 20 years.
And that's that's if the rubber
is degrading?
That's correct.
Yeah, we're going to warranty that it's going to hold up for its head
impact rating for a period of 20
years.
And do you deal
with a lot of warranty claims?
And if not why?
You know
fortunately in ten years we've yet to have a warranty claim on
degradation.
And the reason why is because
we have a 60 year test
on the product.
You know one of the things about rubber is
once it's vulcanized it really
holds its shape
and it doesn't break down
and that's really one of the hard
issues that
causes you know the disposal to be an issue
of rubber and that's why you know you try to
keep rubber out of a landfill because it doesn't
break down.
And so are our product
will not break down.
And so we're very confident to be able to offer
a 20 year rating on it because
we have the 60 year test that we know
it should hold up for at least that long.
Yeah that's excellent.
That's excellent. So
you know and that's amazing you have not had
anybody call it in warranty
but if someone were walk me through
a scenario that you could see someone
having to call in this warranty what
might happen?
Yes so in the event that
they had some surface degradation
something was happening then we could ultimately
have a have a test performed
on the rubber to see what's going on
with it. We would also be able
to test the
head impact attenuation on the surface
to see where it's at to try to understand
you know what's causing the issue
and ultimately you know it's an issue
that the product is breaking down.
We would replace enough material
to make sure that it gets back into specification.
For 20 years?
For a 20 year period.
That's excellent.
Let me ask you about this.
Does Jelly Bean stay put
or does is it prone to loss because when you
think about mulch you think about
you know maybe natural mulch
and how it might degrade.
So does Jelly Bean stay put?
It really does.
Now ultimately you know you could
have a situation where
you may have to add a ton here
and there. You know there's a couple of thing that
we recommend.
One we always recommend that you seal up
the subbase meaning that you don't want
the rubber compacting into
the subbase so you want to have a weed
barrier fabric down a
heavy duty one you know one is rated for
at least 20 years.
We recommend at least 30
or longer on these fabrics.
And that's going to keep the material from going into the
subbase and in addition you need to have a good border system
around the sides to make sure
that the mulch isn't really being kicked out by
kids. Ultimately you could have a little bit
carried off here and there.
And you may have to add some.
However the cool
thing about our product because
it doesn't have wire in it.
We're able to cut it into different sizes.
One of the issues with the tire mulch is that it all
kind of has to be about the same size uniform
piece where we triple screen our
product. So we have some smaller pieces
some medium
and some big
and it makes a very dense surface
which helps the material
stay put because it doesn't
get kicked around as much.
And so interesting
enough we actually passed the
ADA test for accessibility
for wheelchair accessibility.
And it's hard to do that
with most loose fill
surfaces because the pieces tend to migrate
where ours tend to stay put.
And you know that's not something
that we've kind of figured out in the office.
You know we actually tested this
with multiple different playgrounds
and we looked at two
or three different ways of putting
it in really big pieces small
pieces medium pieces
and then we found the best performance
for head impact attenuation accessibility
and the material staying put
was this triple screen
design where we have multiple
size pieces.
I always tell people
think of it this way you know if I give you a five gallon
bucket
and I said fill it up with baseballs you have a lot
of airspace in there
and it would tend to kind of move around some
whereas if I gave you some marbles
and golf balls to kind of all mix in
you'd have a heck of a lot less air space.
And that's the concept
of why our product
is different than a lot of
the other loose fill materials on
the marketplace.
Yeah that's really interesting.
And you mentioned that
there is more density to it so
you're in Houston right?
That's correct.
Did the recent hurricane floods
cause a lot of issues for
your clients?
Well you know here's the interesting
thing. We had one client
that we had we had several that did take
on water. You know some several feet
over the playground.
And this wasn't the first
time this past hurricane.
We've had people going all the way back to 2008
with the hurricane that hit.
The floods in Baton Rouge in 2016
had several customers flood.
And interesting enough I'll
I'll I'll tell you almost every
playground.
Most of the rubber is still there
even after having several
feet of water.
Over the top of the playground.
And it's because our product does not
float.
And so it's not
going to really
disappear.
Now the only drawback there is some issues
that were caused
with the hurricanes where
some people had problems
with you know contaminated
water getting on a playground so
they had to go through different steps to remediate
to get this rubber clean
or either top dress it
and all because they had other contamination
issues. But as for the rubber moving
that's one of the best things is that there
was a playground that I had to see
with my own eyes to believe it.
It flooded in 2015 2016
and 2017 three
times. About three to four feet of
water on top of every
every playground each time.
It was two to three different playgrounds
on site.
And I walked in to look at it
and I couldn't believe it I mean the playground
probably would've passed specification.
That's amazing.
Now it is
really interesting because you have
this unique product. It does
hold up really well
but I think some people would wonder
if they go about financing
the product because if you're going to build a big playground
costs could get
could add up.
Would there be any kind of
less warranty
or other issues if they finance
the product?
Absolutely not.
No. If you finance it
pay cash credit card in any way
it does not change.
The terms at all whatsoever.
OK great. That's excellent.
So what do you see as
an average warranty for
say the other kind of rubber
playground surface out there rubber tire
mulch?
So the tire mulch will have
a similar warranty as us.
You know they are going to be pretty close
in the timeframe against degradation.
Once again you know they're dealing
with vulcanized rubber the same as
I the difference which you see
with their rubber though is you know
they're warranting
a paint coating
sometimes for 12 years on
average.
And if you read the fine print you know they're saying
that all of the paint won't come
off or half of the paint won't come
off. I mean they're telling you the paint
is going to come off.
I mean it's no secret you can ask people
over time you know the paint
will come off of
tire mulch. You know it's you know I
always tell people if you could find paint
that's going to stay on rubber
and not come off I'd love to know
because we would implement that.
But it is
difficult to get paint to stay on rubber
and not to bleed off on the
kids.
And is your product painted?
It is not you know that's one of the big differences
you know we choose not to paint the product
just because we know that over time we
don't want the coating fading
on the product.
Sure sure. So
what are some issues other than
the paint fading that people might
have with rubber tire mulch
instead of say the Jelly Bean rubber?
So one of the big things kind of just to
touch on that painting you know a lot of the reason
why they paint tire mulch is because
it's so filthy to begin
with. And you know we have a little higher durometer rubber
it doesn't leach
and so we really don't have to paint it.
And that that should be noted you know
because tire mulch
if you don't paint it you're going to have kids running
around with black
streaks all over their clothes
and this stuff is just filthy.
And then a lot of the issues
that I hear customers coming
back and buying my product after
they have purchased tire mulch.
Or perhaps maybe a
something I hear you know someone looking
for an alternative is wire
because these guys you know they find wire
and you know these tire
guys you know they're not saying 100
percent wire free they are saying 99.99 you
know they're
guaranteeing it's going to have some wire in it.
And so it's
a real issue you know whether you get
a lot or whether you find it it's
in there embedded.
And ultimately
that has that has been a big
difference between the tire
company and us is that we can
truly say this is a 100 percent wire free product
because we never had any to begin
with in the product.
Sure
and for the other type of
play surfaces how
does the Jelly Bean warranty line up
compared to those that someone were to install
poured-in
or a natural surface etc..
How does the Jelly Bean warranty line up against
those?
So you know if we're going to go
with like the bottom line
you know you're really not getting a warranty on a wood
mulch product because you know it's going to
rot as soon as you put it down.
You got to keep adding it
and then you step up into like
the real higher end stuff above
what I would consider you know the three times
the price that the Jelly
Bean rubber mulch falls is like unitary
surfacing. You know some of it
you know could be less like pour-in-place.
You're going to see warranties on that product
like it's three to five years on a
pour-in-place product.
Now the challenge
with it is you know that's
usually not a DIY fix
that's something someone has to come back
out
and mix up some some
binder and rubber together
and fix and let me give you an example.
You know there's a very
large school district that we do some
work with and they had purchased
quite a bit of pour-in-place before
we became a business.
And you know they shared
with us that they basically had someone
running around in a circle fixing pour-in-place.
Now this is a big school district.
But they got a guy that you know
every few months has to go somewhere
and just kind of do a repair to it
you know and the stuff just picks off it's just
one of the issues that's why it's typically
only warrantied for three to five years.
You get into a little higher end surface
like a tile a tile
is going to be manufactured under
controlled circumstances
in a factory.
And so you're going to get a better
finished product
but ultimately tiles do buckle
and they have issues as well.
Even the best tiles you know they'll have
like a 15 year prorated
warranty.
So say you make it to year 14
and we determined that you know these tiles
aren't functioning
and that there is some flaw.
You know you may get like a 10 percent
discount on
the
purchase of a new tile system
or so.
So it's not you know
a true
15 years you know hey we're going to replace
the whole thing.
You know it is a prorated
warranty on a lot of the tile systems
and some of them aren't even near 15
years. A lot of tiles are only warrantied for
about five years
and then I'll touch on turf
as well.
You know a lot of turf.
Some of it. Eight to 10 years you see in
the marketplace.
You know turf has its own issues
as well.
You know you do
have to make repairs whatnot for
it but it's
a lot of money to have to
possibly replace it in eight to 10
years.
Right. And I was going to ask is there
any product like Jelly Bean on the market
I mean do you have a competitor
or anything?
There's really not.
And the reason why
is because you know
we have a small amount
byproduct material
and you know we
look at a lot of other rubbers that
is close to spec
but if we can't guarantee they didn't have
contamination
and that they don't have red list chemicals
and they don't have anything that a child
is not safe to play on
filate free sterile latex free
you know all these things you have to take into consideration.
And so it really limits
the type of rubber supply of
rubber that we could use.
And you know if we were to go out
and just buy this rubber
and do it I think we would be almost
ten times the cost.
And so it is
just very difficult to find
suitable rubber so I think
that you know we kind of have
a hard time you
know in the marketplace finding
more and so it is a limited
supply issue
and therefore you know that's the reason why
there's not more people doing it
and that's why you know we have
a hard time keeping up
with orders at times.
That's fantastic. It's a good problem to have if you are a
business.
Yes it is.
OK. And then last question for you
that I just thought of what you're talking about that
does the warranty cover indoor installs
if anyone were to install this inside?
It certainly
does.
Ok Because people
And that's a good you know a good a good note.
You know I mean we are
to my knowledge the only loose-fill product
that is certified in the state of California
to go indoors due to the fact
that you know we do have a rating on the product
that shows that
it meets the indoor air quality standards
to not emit VOCs.
And so you know there are products
that are unitary that
have that standard.
But to my knowledge
there are no loose-fill products besides
ours that meets that standard.
Right. Right.
Well Nick this has been wonderful.
I really appreciate your time to explain
the warranty for Jelly Bean rubber mulch.
Thanks Clark.
Thank you.
All right bye bye.
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