hi this is Kevin Richards from rpm vocal studio and you're listening to the
musicality podcast very nice great and can you do it in a Mickey Mouse voice
hi this is Kevin Richards from rpm vocal studio and you're listening to the musicality podcast
ever wondered why some people seem to have a gift for music have you ever
wished that you could play by ear sing in tune improvise and jam you're in the
right place time to turn those wishes into reality welcome to the musicality
podcast with your host Christopher Sutton hi this is Christopher founder of
musical u and welcome to the musicality podcast today I'm joined by
Kevin Richards of rpm vocal studio he's a renowned vocal coach who has worked as
a musician producer songwriter and arranger for over 30 years and he's
coached gold and platinum award-winning artists including Bette Midler and Rod
Stewart as you'll be hearing in this interview Kevin has a particular angle
on his vocal coaching which sets him apart for most of the technique focused
singing teachers and vocal coaches out there
Kevin specializes in the performance side of singing meaning what you
actually do up on stage or in front of a crowd and how you make sure your singing
performance is the best it can be even though you're far from the familiar and
relaxed environment of the practice room as I was preparing for this episode and
trying to figure out what part of Kevin's expertise would be most useful
to you all as listeners of the musicality podcast I was really thinking
about how some of you are I'm sure performing already and looking for tips
on improving and others are probably too self-conscious or too unsure of your
musical abilities to feel comfortable performing or taking center stage
I think whichever category you might be in this episode is going to blow your
mind a little bit and in a very good way in this conversation we talked about my
performance was the big piece Kevin found words missing from all the
traditional material on learning too thing one slightly brutal but effective
and ultimately enjoyable exercise he does with his students who are nervous
to perform in front of people and how working as Rod Stewart's vocal coach
revealed a remarkable attitude to performing that we can all learn from
this conversation was a total pleasure and really illuminating for me so I hope
you'll love it too my name is Christopher Sutton and this
is the musicality podcast from musical u welcome to the show Kevin thank you
for joining us today no problem at all rather be here so I
love to begin by asking our guests a bit about their own musical background at
this point you're a consummate performer and you help other people up on stage
being the best performer and entertainer they can be was that natural for you
from day one did you kind of leap out of the womb with a mic in your hand or what
was those early music experiences like for you no no no no no as a child that
was extremely introverted extremely shy socially shy I would be I was as my
mother would say I was kind of the church mouse that you had to kind of
coax out from the shadows to say hello anyone
I was very socially inept very afraid to say the wrong thing in front of adults
because I might get in trouble I had an older sister who had a very big mouth
would always got in trouble for saying the wrong thing so I thought well if I
don't say anything I won't get in trouble so I became very invert ly shy
it wasn't until I actually started playing music starting out as a drummer
at the age of eleven that I started to come a little bit more out of my shell
where I started to but I was still kind of you know I was behind the drums like
it kind of added it's something a distance between me and people and then
as it progressed in bands I kind of graduated from being a drummer to a bass
player so as I kind of I was slowly moving myself forward in front of people
and I got a little more confident as I went along is really playing in bands is
really what opened up my sort of social confidence towards other people it
wasn't until I was really thrust into being a lead singer of my own band I
actually really became more of an out reverb
because I had to be I now had to talk to a roomful of people I didn't know and
the first thing I did is I died I kind of I watched a lot of other performers
local to my area who were really good at it and I kind of took a lot of pointers
and I asked some of them like how we really good at talking to an audience
and I had one particular guy give me a really good idea he goes I write
everything down I write everything down I'm gonna say between songs and I
learned it like a script and I say it and I kind of repeat it like an actor
talking to I kind of have this that way I know I have a set thing to say and I
have certain cues for the band when I say this click the song in and boom
we're right on so there's a flow to the show
now if that's a really good idea so I started to come up with and we used to
rehearse this with the band I'm gonna say this this this and this and then you
go right into the song and it helped me not have to try to improvise in front of
people I could sort of I could I knew what I was going to say in the band knew
what I was going to say and it cuts down on dead air but you're kind of standing
around staring at people and you don't know what to say you have a little bit
of it's scripted yeah there's room for improvisation but you kinda know what
you're going to say and that started me sort of more I'm on my roll of being
more of an active performer towards an audience it's thinking about what I'm
going to say to them before I get on the stage now some people are really good
they're outwardly social they're really good at just looking at a roomful of
people and just being able to talk to them I kind of have to be a bit more
scripted in a way I kind of well I want to know what I'm gonna say but I can
improvise around that I can cut talk to people in conversation it doesn't have
to be scripted but that's a learned process there's some people that have it
very naturally and they're very good but most of us kind of have to learn it and
it's and it's something you can practice it sounds strange to say like well it's
practice improvisation but jazz people do it all the time they practice
improvisation so you can actually do it it's just knowing you know your audience
and the people that you're going to be talking to generally I mean audiences
vary from place to place when you play but they're pretty much the same
demographic most of the time so you can kind of work up jokes and
things to say that will work across the audience and things like that and it'll
work that's just to start then you get just really good at just being able to
kind of think off the top of your head and it just happens like if you knew me
in high school when I was like 14 15 you would never picture me sin is sitting
here doing this having a podcast with someone because I was so shy and so to
talk to people and to be on YouTube and to be putting videos out something you
would have never imagined that person then being who I am today and that was
just a slow thing that happened over time people look at me today and they
think I was always like this but no no no no no no I was a very very shy kid
interesting well I'm sure that's really encouraging to a lot of our listeners
who as you say if they looked at you now would assume you were just kind of born
doing it this way I can do it anyone can do it I was I mean my parents had me
going a child psychologist that's how bad it was and let's dwell for a minute
on those early is aside from the performance aspect that you scripted and
practiced what was your music education like how are you learning music well I
had no real formal musical training except for drums when I first started
when I first got into wanting to play the drums not really sure why that
seemed to be the instrument that called to me at first I liked the kind of
rhythmic aspect of it I was always a kid who kind of always popped his head to
music whenever I heard it so that appealed to me first so my parents were
like okay well if you're gonna learn this we're gonna have you take you to
lessons and learn the proper weight and all I know and I took lessons for a
couple years but in terms of learning every other minutes that I play like
guitar bass and piano and things like that it's also taught just from books
and watching people play and have other people show me things and all of that
and I learned it and you know I get a little bit better over a time I'm no
virtuoso and I on any of those instruments I'm probably better so the
best is a drummer because I played that the longest but you know I'm competent
enough to do what I need to do you know you don't have to be the best guitar
player in the world or the best place bass player in the world my thing was
just to be a really good songwriter try to write really good songs you don't
have to be the best guitar player a world to write really good song so you
don't have to be the best piano player in the world or a Vesper you know would
have singer even it's a very good song it was about learning the craft of
songwriting you know because not every musician that you see out there is the
greatest on the planet you know some of them are pretty average actually but
they do what they do really well and that's the more important thing you
don't have to be the best at what you do you just have to do what you do really
really well you don't think the best on the planet I mean you can you just be
really good at what you do like the Beatles themselves as
individual people were not the greatest musicians on the planet but together as
a team they worked really really well and that's more important in terms of a
group dynamic or even a solo dynamic do what you do but do it really really well
and you said something there about being kind of thrust into the position of lead
singer had you been learning to sing will practicing singing up till that
point well I was always a singer yeah I could always sing as a kid I always had
good pitch and a good ear growing up because my father was a really good
singer my mother couldn't carry a song if it had handles but my father had a
really really good really good singing voice a really nice baritone voice and
he was also a championship Whistler yeah he had really gift for for whistling and
do bird calls and things all that kind of stuff so I learned kind of a little
bit from that and I used to and my thing was listening to voices and picking out
the subtleties and characteristics of individual voices and at an early age I
started to do vocal imitations vocal impressions of other people of my family
members of people that I sold on TV and cartoon people likes to start and it
picked up on how the voice sounds and how to manipulate your voice to make it
sound a certain way and but I never really wanted to be a singer I wanted to
be a musician really but I could always sing and in all the bands I was in
before I was a lead singer I was always doing all the backing vocals I was doing
all the harmony vocals which was difficult to do from behind the drums so
that's why I kind of moved to being bass player so like it was a little bit
easier but that the singer that we had who was a friend of my girlfriend's at
the time had this really nice high tenor voice
so his voice was perfected make it growl and screams was perfect for like that
80s hard rock thing that we were doing so he was the singer and I was quite
happy with writing the songs and letting him sing them and he was a very outward
personality so he was really good at talking to a roomful of people
so he was the perfect frontman where I could just kind of be in the background
do everything but then he left he got a really good job offer at the age of
twenty-one and he left him moved out of state so the band was basically like you
know no one is going to run is going to sing these songs better than you because
you wrote them we're not gonna have find somebody else who's gonna come in here
and sing the songs the way you want because he would sing them the way the
melodies that I came up with he would just sing them that way he wouldn't
really know I'm gonna sing it my way he was seeing it the way I wrote it so
we're never gonna find anybody like that so you sing your own songs anyway so I
got thrust into being the lead singer when they really didn't want to be so I
was in that was all oh my god I'm thrown into the Lions pit I don't know how I've
never done this before and I found out how really inadequate my vocal ability
was in terms of singing my own songs because that I key I keyed them for his
voice which was a tenor voice and as you can hear I have more of a heavy low
baritone so it was difficult for me to sing a lot of my own songs because they
were keyed higher so I was like mm maybe I should go find out how to sing these
songs so that's when I started my journey into vocal instruction and
research and learning about the voice and all that and this is probably 1987
87 88 so and so I'm doing is 30 years and did my first I've wrote got my first
book in 1988 or 89 I brought out like a book or something was like a cassette
thing and like you know in the bookstore in 87 which we didn't really help at all
because it was geared towards like musical theater people
it wasn't into you know let's sing 80s hard rock didn't really relate so I
didn't really get much out of that and that the first book that I bought which
I still have somewhere is a book by Mark Baxter there's another good vocal
which out of Boston it is is the rock and roll singer Survival Guide which was
the only book I ever saw in a bookstore figure kid kids there was no such thing
as the internet back then we actually had to go into a bookstore and look at
books on his shelf like a library and it was the only book I saw that had
anything contemporary and it said rock and roll singer so I was like ah there
we go and marks book is great it's a great reference if you're looking for
your first book to buy on singing it's a great book it's very easily written out
nice illustrations nothing really heavily technical gives you a good
background and that's a great book for a first time singer looking to get into
learning about the voice and technique and from there you know I started to
pick up I have now over a hundred and fifty books on voice that I've that have
accumulated over 30 years which my wife is not too happy about cuz it takes up a
lot of room in the bookshelves but they go all the way back to like 1900 and
stuff I go to rare books rare bookstores to find you know way out of print books
and stuff and I read them all and I absorb what I think is useful and and
all of that and and so and that's part of what I where I came to how I teach
today is that accumulated knowledge distilled down to what I think is
important for performers hmm interesting and you're clearly better positioned
than most to answer this but if you think back to that stage what kinds of
things were you struggling with and what kinds of technique or insight did you
need to get to kind of go from being an unsure lead singer thrust into it to
someone who was confident and capable doing that role right well the very
first rehearsal as me as lead singer opened my eyes immensely about how
inadequate I was as a singer because I could barely get through 40 minutes 35
40 minutes and I was like this mmm I was like hmm I bet Beth should go look maybe
up somebody for some instruction and I started to learn about how the voice
worked and how to breathe properly and how to your diction and your
articulation and and resonance and I start to learn all about that stuff and
I became fascinated with how the voice works because I said I'd always been a a
an observer of people's voices by imitating them and stuff like that but I
had no really scientific basis of how the structure worked so once I kind of
got a bit more background information in terms of the mechanics of of singing I
became fascinated by that and it just it it fueled my curiosity in wanting to be
a better singer is if I if I can learn to do this this this this and this and
this and you know and I also heard about the baritone curse you know that you're
if you're a baritone you can't sing high and all this and I had a couple of
teachers tell me that and they didn't last long as a teacher with me so I
found the one that said no no you can learn to sing high you won't sound like
the people that you like who are actually really tenors or high baritones
but you can sing the same notes you can get up there you'll just sound slightly
different but you can achieve that and that's when I finally got some hope into
singing the way I want to sing and that's also a basis of what I get when I
teach other people because they come to me and they don't think they can sing
there either and I'm like oh no no if you can if I can learn how to do it so
can you because I didn't the voice that you hear now is you know 20 plus years
of accumulated you know research and training you know but it didn't always
sound like this you know I wish I could find a cassette tape I had of me at like
15 or 16 strumming along on my guitars some Beatles songs and stuff and you
could see how awful I sounded find us saying some hi Paul McCartney stuff and
it was really bad I could barely sing over middle C on the piano at one time
it was really will definitely have some links in the show notes to this episode
to specific YouTube videos where people can see and listen to what your voice
can do now because it is quite incredible right it's never old no I
could barely do any of that stuff before mm-hm I feel like we could do an entire
two-hour conversation about vocal technique and all of the insight and
wisdom you have on that front in terms of pitch range and breathing and
dynamics but the thing I was most keen to pick your brains on is really the
performance and charisma side and I think the the next stage in your musical
journey or at least stage which soon followed
was a tour in Europe and the Far East with a band around 96 is that right
correct mm-hmm yeah we got the band itself had broken up in 1993 but
unbeknownst to us the manager that we had at the time kept kept submitting our
material to independent record labels all over the planet he just kept pushing
it for two years after we had broken up as a band and finally tight sheikhoo
records out of Japan which was Division of Panasonic picked us up or at least
wanted to pick us up and they took what we had already recorded and said we want
you to go in and record three more songs to add to this so it's a full thing
because I think it was six songs on the original thing that we were submitting
so we have nine so we can put this out on the label and so that was an
interesting thing because in the interim of those two years of the band broken up
two guys in the band had become enemies with each other they hated each other
couldn't stand to be in the same room I'm not I'm not really sure even still
to this day how that happened and why they'd be they hated each other
afterwards because they were good friends during the vampyre so so that
was an interesting thing to have to work around of them trying to get along for
this tour but we kind of sat down was like for the betterment of this
experience you know put your personal stuff aside and let's just work on this
and we did and we got picked up when we rehearsed and we went out and they flew
us out to Los Angeles first because doing four here in New York and we went
to Los Angeles we had three days of rehearsals for for the the tour where we
had a musical director I guess you could call me musical director you know
keeping us under time make sure we didn't run over time and all that and
listening to the order of the songs and all that kind of so this was from the
label and in our first show was in Tokyo we did a show in Osaka and then we
played in Seoul Korea to 13,000 people and an outdoor festival which is my
largest crowd up until that point you know from 13 people to 13,000 goes a
long way in and suddenly thrusting into into and actually find it easier to sing
in front of thousands of people then like dozens who
are right in front of you staring at you with their arms folded you know impress
me dude go ahead you know rather than 13-thousand people are just kind of a
wash to see if people out in the distance that's easier to sing to
because you don't have to look anybody directly in the face and I find that a
little bit more comforting then in a plus if I don't wear my glasses and
stuff they're all just a fuzz anyway so it was even easier you know I actually
found that easier and a larger crowd than a small crowd right right in front
of you staring in your face where you can look at them that's more unnerving
to me but you know we went through and it was six weeks we went through like
Manila the Philippines and we came up through all those Pacific Islands into
Belgium and then we played in Sweden and Germany and and Italy Greece France and
I made our last show was in London at a small venue there opening for this band
called Oh God it'll come back to me later
they're on they were on the same label the time they're on a different label
now but at that particular time they were on the label and and we were
opening for them through the through the through the the Asian area there we were
standing like Japan Korea and China and all that they had another band on the
bill was an Asian band who was on the same level it was big in that market
they were unknown outside of Asia or the Far East whatever so they opened they
were the third act on with the first band on through those dates and then
after when we got to Europe they jumped off the tour and so and that was a huge
experience to me because it was I learned how the business worked in terms
of the business of touring how it worked in terms of your budgeting and
timetables and being on time and and sound checking and not getting a sound
check and make sure you're off here and you're back on the you're back in the
van and back of the hotel so you can catch the train or catch the flight
living out of a suitcase the the the troubles of air travel and all that kind
of in terms of keeping your voice
hydrated and moist and traveling on airplanes and things like that
waiting for long periods and going from you know a relatively warm Japan and
like South Korea to going to like really really hot Manila that was a that was a
that was that was an interesting experience going from that that kind of
humidity into there like the Philippines and stuff on those on those Islands and
then going back to into like Belgium where it was nice and cool even though
it was the summer it wasn't that hot it was June so it wasn't that bad but I
learned a lot about the business of touring in terms of money constraints
and how much you get to spend each day for food and incidentals and all that
kind of stuff you're not really paid while you're touring you're paid
afterwards but they give you like a sort of a stipend kind of a little bit of
spending money while you're around the tour manager what kind of okay guys
here's like 10 bucks to go out and eat food for the day so you have to make it
stretch I mean yeah we're provided food backstage at the venue but would you
like give you a day off mmm you don't have a lot of money to let go out and
you know gallivant around the city and do a lot of tourist stuff because you're
on a lot of constraints because you know they weren't spending a lot of money on
the tour because they know this wasn't a giant label or anything like that so
they have a lot of tour money so I learned a lot about budgeting and I do
this with other students of mine who are going out on tour I have some students
here in the states that do small tours where they go out for a week or two and
I help them kind of budget out their tour schedule in terms of gas money and
hotel money and what you're gonna make from the gig and how to kind of maximize
that spend ature mmm as they go through the process because you can end up broke
very easily at the end of all of that even in the middle of it you'll end up
broke mmm fascinating and on the on the vocal side were you teaching at this
stage we were already coaching other people no no I just are teaching till
around 2002 because I'd up in the background of all this I was a graphic
designer so that was my tongue quote real job you
know the one that paid the bills really
I was a graphic designer and then I got I was living in California for a bunch
of years and I moved back to New York and there just wasn't a really a lot of
work so I was doing freelance and a lot of full-time work so I was doing a lot
of freelance graphic design so in the interim when I wasn't freelancing I was
teaching so I was kind of part time and doing part time both and then around
2007-2008 the the even the freelance work started to drop off so I started to
teach more and I became basically than a full-time teacher and we've touched on a
couple of times your particular specialty is kind of performance
oriented vocal writing is really about this question of being onstage not just
like kind of singing each note correctly where did that come from why is it that
you went in that direction well it is in my research of singing methodologies and
I found most of them were geared towards doing the method really well doing the
actual technique really well you know doing the scales and the exercises
really well and a lot of it not of it not a lot of it was or had a lot of it
in the method Ella in terms of like other people's vocal courses and books
that I read it was a lot about you know there are books out there especially in
a classical community about performance which I thought was really good but not
a lot of it in terms of in terms of contemporary there are a lot of books
for classical singers about performance and I thought it was very lacking in
terms of the contemporary scene it was all about well I have my method and this
is my method and this is my method and this is my pedagogy and and and I bought
everybody's book and everybody's vocal course and all that to see and not a lot
of them had any sort of sections based on well how does this now relate to when
I'm singing in front of people on a stage mid was well know get the
exercises really well do the exercises really well and you'll learn how to sing
on stage not really there's a difference between training your voice and in
performing with your voice there's a big difference in those two a lot of what
you do in the training gets actually thrown out the window once you hit the
stage because there's only certain things that you can do
while you're performing when you're standing in your house and you're
training you go huh you can full pay full attention to what you're doing you
can listen to your voice and you can pay attention what your body is doing and
you can do it over and over and over again you hit the stage you've got one
time to get it right and you have to be performing you have to be engaging the
audience so you can't be paying that much attention to what you're doing
physically and I mean yeah you're you're listening and you're feeling what your
body is doing but it's kind of more in the background and you have to have a
lot of stuff kind of set in to that so my performance stuff is I try to
eliminate all the things out of the training that aren't relative to what
you have to do when you sing songs in front of people so I train towards that
goal rather than doing the exercises or the method properly very cool I'm
reminded of something my singing teacher in high school told me when we were
talking about breathing and she was saying you know it's all very well to be
stood here in the practice room carefully monitoring your posture and
getting your diaphragm nice right but if you're gonna sing an opera Aria and in
the scene you're lying on a bench you're not going to be able to do it that way
how is that relative right those two things aren't related now you have to be
able to sing in every position so the idea of like well I have to have perfect
posture and my breathing sp yeah well that doesn't how about if you're
Quasimodo or you know in what is it Faust who is the devil and half the time
at the performance he's hunched over to look menacing he's not in perfect
posture well he still has to be able to sing so you have to learn how to do that
as well I have to be able to sing in every position and be loose with my body
not perfectly standing up straight the the idea of posture comes from how it
looks on stage well nice you know a very in the heroic stance of the hero in it
in the Opera you know he stands very straight and he looks very you know
heroic at posture but there are lots of in even Rigoletto there's a the one of
the guy that gesture whatever is hunched over and most of the time he's
performing he has to be able to sing in that position so where does then it was
posture come in and that's what I mean it's you can't be this way
the methodology doesn't always apply to actual singing on a stage it's all well
and good in the in that in the studio but an in real world application a lot
of that doesn't apply so you have to have alternate ways of training to to
kind of cover all the various aspects of what you'll do on a stage
so that's unpacked a little I think if we were going to talk about technique it
would be easy for either of us to reel off a list of the stuff we'd talked
about like breathing and posture and dynamics and phrasing and range and all
that good stuff if we talk about the performance side what are the various
aspects there that you'd be digging into with a student or helping them with it's
not only did the aspect of the tonality of their voice and the idea is that
you're not going for a perfect performance you're going for an optimal
performance you're going into sort of the you're going into the pit so to
speak I like to call it you're kind of being thrust into the pit into the
firefight knowing that things are gonna go wrong and that they're it's okay that
they go wrong you try to minimize them as much as possible and you don't let
bother you while you're performing don't let it so you just know that's
gonna happen things are gonna happen things are gonna go wrong it's okay okay
and that's why I talk like you talked a little bit but pre-interview before we
got on the air about one of my videos about confidence is overrated and this
is a lot of people put this well I have to be confident front of people I'm like
well how do you be confident you can't just it's not a light switch you just
flick on now I'm confident you have to have belief in your abilities you have
to actually be training for the stage so when you go out on the stage you're
comfortable in that position if all you're doing is trampling and standing
straight and doing singing exercises in a studio and you're thrust on this
there's two two two totally different environments so I train people to
perform on the stage I have them holding a microphone with the stand if their
guitar player I have the guitar on them while they're singing so they're kind of
more in that element and then I look at how their body is moving how their
posture is in terms of when they're holding an instrument others
Danny with the microphone at their hunched over do they look confident do
they look scared how do they move around the stage because they're also there's a
craft - sort of covering the entire length of the stage and hitting all the
people in the audience with eye contact and all that and how long do you look at
somebody before it gets too creepy you know
it's a two second rule you look at them for one second - second boom move on
look at somebody else after that it kind of looks like it's a little weird so all
things like that so I have them do this while they're actually doing the
training exercises they're looking around the room they're walking they're
walking in circles they're doing back and forth they're moving their body in a
loose way so they feel that they're moving their body there they're actually
using their body to sing with and it's how they look and I film a lot of them
so they can see what they look like because a lot of you don't know you know
and in a mirror you're a little self-conscious so you'll kind of try to
look cool if you're looking at yourself in a mirror while you're doing this but
if you just have someone film you and then you look back you're apt to catch
things that you're not really aware of that you're doing and you'll go oh that
looks cool or oh my god let's not do that anymore that looks terrible and
that was and that's something I stress with a lot of bands also is when they're
if they do shows film them video yourself on a stage and have everybody
in the band look at it so they can all look about how they look if they're
moving too much or not enough things like that so I do this with people in
the studio I try to put them in a performance mode so that they're
combining all the elements of training their voice and also performing with it
at the same time it's super fascinating I think one of the really great
practical tips in that video you mentioned was you talked about kind of
training beyond what's required you know if you do it in the perfect environment
you just need to hit you know and get it right right but you were talking about
knowing for example that you can sing beyond the range that's required so that
when it comes down to it in a performance situation you can trust
yourself in the level of performance you're actually alive students that come
in to be like you know well I write my own material and you know the G above
middle C is the highest note my song so that's as far as I need to
learn how to sing and I'm like well no no no you want to learn how to sing to
the hi-c to see above that so that G that's in your songs there is always
working for you it's always there you're always confident that that's
gonna come out of your mouth it's not the end note of your range it's kind of
3/4 of the way up and your confidence is more on that note because you know you
can sing higher than that you want to have more range than you'd actually need
to sing with you mean if I have a good warm-up day I can do five octaves the C
one two the C six do I need all of that range to sing with no I sing pretty much
within a two octave range but a knowing that I have that extra buffer range on
the outside gives me confidence that the range they do sing in will always be
there for me and will always work or at least with minimum amount of effort or
warm-up for me I know I can get that voice to work for me because I have more
of it and I'm more confident with it because I know I can do more than I
actually that actually required of me to do and that's what I mean by just saying
well just be confident is overrated you have to know and have a belief in your
abilities to become confident people aren't really confident what they are is
they they they understand that mistakes will be made and they don't let that
bother them and they know what they can and cannot do they know their
limitations and they don't go beyond them they're always working within their
limitation so that gives them a confidence to do what they do really
well so anyone you see is really confident can do a lot more than they're
showing you and that's that's the real secret of confidence so what I loved
about hearing you describe the kind of exercises you do with your students
there was that it started to kind of demystify this stage charisma or stage
presence thing you know I'm sure all of our listeners have been to a gig where
you see the frontman and he's you know rocking the microphone like the crowd is
enthralled he seems to be a natural-born performer but clearly hearing you talk
about that like there's a lot of thought and preparation and kind of methodology
that goes into or suddenly can go into preparing for being that frontman right
there's a great story told by the bass player for Prince
and he talks about people see Prince you know they saw Prince later on he could
do all these great things with like a mic stand and he would twirl it around
and and kick his leg over the top of it through his legs and all that kind of
stuff he said at one time he had none of that in his stage performance and what
he did is he locked himself away in his rehearsal studio for three days locked
himself in brought a cot in slept in there with him and a mic stand and all
he did was work out exactly what he wanted to do with that mic stand for
three days and when he came out he had everything you now see him doing so he
had a singular focus he's like I want to be really good I want to do something
different with a mic stand that no one's doing before so he had a singular focus
and he for three days straight he did nothing but work on that so there's a
craft in that and and this was something I touched upon with with Rod Stewart
when I was was when I was traveling with him for a couple of days it was about I
teach people this stuff he's like oh I've got that covered you know with
using mic standard stuff which actually he stole from Sam Cooke the use of a mic
stand it tilting his head back and stuff when he sings he saw Sam Cooke to that
and he stole that idea so it's okay to sort of steal some ideas from other
people and that's what I used to do is to go and see other guys that were
really good at being frontman and kind of Nick little ideas here and there
about how they stood and how they looked at a crowd and and how they used a
microphone and a mic stand and you just pick up these little ideas that
incorporate them into what you do and you just practice with them you kind of
make it your own and I practice this with students in the studio I have them
hold a mic stand hold the mic and and work it as it as an accident as an
additional prop on the stage and actually holding something can can give
you a little bit more confidence that you're not just bear out in front of
people you actually have something kind of between you and the audience that you
can kind of work around it's kind of it becomes a dance partner with you and you
kind of learn to move with it and use it and all of that and it gives you
something a little bit of security if something to grab on to and all that and
I work on that with students and it helps them relate more to an audience
and bridge that gap of confidence it helps them it helps them
learn to become confident and not just you can't just switch on a light and
become confident so you've mentioned a couple of world famous names there
Prince and Rod Stewart and I want to ask you kind of a double-ended question
which is do you think all of the kind of pro performers have been this kind of
conscious and intentional about it versus just kind of doing it
instinctively and contrariwise do you think there are amateurs who just can
never learn this because they don't have what it takes well it's it's it's all
down to your mindset anyone anyone can learn to do it it's how natural you look
when you do it if you look at very early very early live performance clips of
Bono and u2 and then you look at it throughout the years you'll see that his
stage performance in his stage persona changed
as the years went on it became a little less flamboyant and a little more
measured a little more thought-out in how he moves across the stage and
looks at it's a bit more performance orientated you say he's really planned
it out of where I'm gonna walk to and how I'm gonna look at the stage whereas
the early 80s it was pretty much just going on adrenaline and improvising I'm
gonna run over here now and I'm gonna run over there and I'm gonna climb the
scaffolding and wave a flag and you know whatever on the top of his head and over
the years he kind of crafted it and became more of a frontman rather than a
lead singer and he became and he started to evoke that now you have some people
like Freddie Mercury who seemed to have it right from the get-go but he also
kind of developed his stage performance as he went on his mannerisms his
mannerisms became more measured more tight more thought-out he knew
what sort of circum certain body postures got a crowd excited you know he
knew if he raised his fists in the army he'd get most of the audience to raise
their fists as well and if he clapped he could get them to clap and it's it's
when you go from smaller audiences to larger or
you start to learn what body movements work more for the size of the audience
the larger the audience you sing to the more exaggerated your body movements
have to be because people way in the back have to see this tiny little figure
moving so you kind of your your movements become bigger and less less
frantic they have to be a bit more measured and you watch these guys a
Fredi sense sort of seemed to have it from the beginning but he developed it
over the years because he learned at each concert what works and what doesn't
work and he threw way the things that didn't seem to work or look too goofy to
him and then what worked and wouldn't seem to look cool with his his body
posture became different he stood more straight and he thrust his air and he
made he made X's a lot if you notice he spread his legs wide and he put his arms
out he made an X that looks really good from a stage from a distance and he used
them I used half a mic stand kind of a thing in awe like I said which was a
unique thing that nobody was doing before that like I said in Bono has
become more measured in his the way that he kind of struts across the stage now
he doesn't run anymore because now he's a little bit older but
but but he's not running but he does run a little bit but I wasn't know that as
much as he did like when he was in his 20s but but now he kind of struts it's
more of a confidence thing rather than a maniacal crazy person lead singer it's
more like no I'm a confident front man and I'm gonna command the audience and
he projects that but that was learned over time and anyone can learn to do
that nice and you provide one-on-one training
in this kind of thing with in person and online if we imagine the kind of
Churchmouse 16 year old that you you mentioned you were yourself and they
came to you and said listen in two months time I've got a front this band
going on a little tour what kind of stuff might you have them doing to bring
that out of them and to give them that confidence and that kind of well
grounded confidence well the money she'd ask there's nothing I do with them
and I want to give the secret away too much but with some of these people I
I've actually taken now I teach two blocks from
square so it's a very busy area with lots of people on the street and I'll
say well if you want it if you want to not be afraid of doing something in
front of people let's go do it in front of people and I take them downstairs
out of the studio down and onto the street is that we're gonna stand here
and we're going to sing a scale in front of people as they pass by can I just do
it I just know that I did do it right in the middle of the street because New
York City people don't care that's the least crazy thing you'll see somebody
doing on the street anyway so I just do it and I like see that say I just did
that when I was 16 when I was your age I couldn't do that but I can do that now
so you do it and I get them dad I goat them to do it and I'm like see nothing
happened the world didn't end you know you didn't die you know the
earth didn't stop spinning on its axis and we flew off into space the world
didn't end so it's okay you can do it nothing bad is going to happen to you
and that's the first step the brain your mind needs to learn that nothing really
bad is going to happen some somebody might look at you really weird but they
kept right on walking they don't not really all that concerned it's it's your
mindset of it is you're afraid of it like I said I was afraid to talk to
people and I had real and an irrational fear of that and I don't know why I had
it over time I learned that nothing bad is going to happen if I talk to people
but I didn't know that at that age you know but I had to learn it over time so
my experience in terms of how I learned to not be that introverted that shy I
help them realize this like listen I wasn't always this way I was like you at
one time so if I can do it you can do it and here are the steps that I took to be
that person and I can streamline it for you so you don't have to take the 20 odd
years to get to that you can take two months to get to that because I learned
and I can actually take all that all the stuff that isn't really relevant and
just give you the bullet points I know you can work on that and we work on that
together in the studio and and I have them go to open mic nights and and and
perform in front of people and say yeah you're going to be nervous you're gonna
be sweating like you have never sweat before you know but you're gonna get
over it and the more you do it the better you get at it
and that's the one thing I let people they don't want to take that first step
to do it and I'm like no you hat you have to get out there and get in front
of people if you don't do it you never learn very cool so I think that gives us
a glimpse of what you do at rpm vocal studio but tell us more you provide
online courses as well is that right I have a couple of courses yeah I have one
called break in the chains which is kind of an intermediate I didn't really see a
lot of courses out when I when I put it out there weren't a lot of vocal courses
out there for people that didn't sing like classical or Broadway or jazz there
were a couple but not geared towards sort of more high-pitched or a higher
range singing so I came up with one again it's a very simplistic course it's
not really a ton of stuff involved but it's very it's very geared towards
performance and it's very simplistic exercises nothing really complicated in
there because singing doesn't have to be really complicated it could be very
simplistic you can learn very complicated things to do with your voice
in a very simplistic way then I have kind of a warm-up which is called vocal
fire which is you can use it either the warm up or you can use it kind of as a
beginners course it's kind of an intro into learning how to use your voice in a
very light way and kind of learning how to kind of work the inner mechanic
mechanics of it all and they're all an inexpensive you can get both of them for
a hundred bucks you know as a digital download you know
if you don't to spend you know a month's rent to you know to buy one course you
know because I don't think a course needs to have like nine CDs and 55
videos and stuff to learn you can get a lot of the very basic concepts you can
keep using in a very quick way so those are on that's at the Vox shop comm you
know but you can use its link to it on an RPM photo studio but yeah I have a
couple of those and then I teach people online and here in the studio in New
York City all the techniques in those things and more I've kind of expanded on
those courses over the years because it was 10 years ago and I've added to it
and things like that and things that are more relevant like I said I do a lot of
relative training for people most of people that come to me are usually
active performers already so I help them do what they already do better
but you know I'm a lot of people ask me well do you teach beginners you know cuz
they see Rod Stewart and they see Bette Midler and they say all these other
professionals on my website do you teach beginners is absolutely absolutely love
a beginner because I want to show them the path that I took and that they can
take a similar path and achieve the same thing I have because I said if I did it
anyone can do it I was not gifted as a singer what you see now is an end result
of a lot of training and a lot of knowledge and a lot of talking to a lot
of other people about their voice you know getting to know other singers and
what they do it's it's a never ending thing it never it never stops I mean the
fact that I'm doing this podcast is one of them you know I want people to learn
I want to learn from other people it's it's a never-ending process so I'd all
of that is incorporated in my online and in-person lessons and it is it's all
relative training to performance fantastic and on that front I think my
listeners are gonna yell at me if I don't
cycle back and ask you to talk a little bit more about working with Rod Stewart
before we wrap things up sure there any kind of standout highlights or lessons
learned from working with him yes to have fun really yeah because he said um
when I first met him because I'd only correspondent him through email first
and when I first met him they flew me out to Chicago and put me up in his
hotel with him to travel with him which is a nice five-star hotel which I never
been in before the first time he met me he hugged me he
gave me a hug I never met this guy before in my life
how you doing night all the sisters like this and then he asked his tour manager
where am I going he had no idea what city was going to
which was Cincinnati and he said oh good let's go have some fun now he talked
about this on the in the in the car to the to the private jet in the private
jet to the to Cincinnati was about and I asked him about you know how does he
how was he still doing this at 72 years of age he's now 73 but back then it was
send me to and he's like I got to have fun I have fun fun fun it's the greatest
job in the world and when I go out there I try to have as much fun as possible
and and that's this thing he loves what he
does you know and I said to know a lot of people at your sort of stage a career
could kind of coast through you know and just kind of show up and do a show and
nobody know people could because of your name yes now he tries to put on the best
show he possibly can from the people that he hires to the musicians that back
him to the songs that he chooses the setlist that he comes up with to how he
performs what he wears on stage is all calculated to giving people the best
show possible but all the same time he wants to have fun and that's his whole
the fact that he still has fun is why he's still doing it and why he doesn't
see himself retiring anytime soon she's having too much fun he loves what he
does and that's the thing that I've taken away was this is that because yeah
it's a lot of hard work and there's a lot of hours involved but in the end
that performance comes and that's when I have my fun and it's all worth it and
that's all that's why you have to perform because that's the end result of
all this training and going through all the hours of tedious exercises is the
performance and that's where you have the fun and that's where it pays off so
the whole process is here is that to understand that what I learned from Rod
Stewart and actually what wouldn't also consulted with Bette Midler was that she
likes to have a lot of fun she's a very funny person in when you meet her and
she looks at performing and singing as an exercise in having a good time she
loves it she loves performing that's why she does it
and most performers do most singers do they love performing so you kind of have
to understand that the tedious process is to get that end result of the fun but
you can have fun along the way I mean it's all in terms of the teacher that
you have and stuff and they can make it fun for you that was one of the things I
liked about a couple of teachers that I had is that they made the experience fun
I didn't dread going that oh my god it's gonna be so boring you know they were
fun teachers and I'd usually you know and that's what I liked about when I
travel with Rod Stewart is everywhere he went he was trying to have fun he said a
load of people how you doing he had a joke for them and things like that he he
just enjoys life and such do you know well if someone at that stage of their
game can still be having fun and still look at it as having fun you know
someone just beginning the process or in the middle or even 3/4 of the way
through the process should be looking at it the same way so my main thing coming
out of Rod Stewart was make the process fun for yourself look for ways that you
can make it enjoyable and not just drudgery you know challenge yourself in
different ways to make it fun stand out the middle of Times Square and sing a
scale or sing a song and give yourself that adrenaline rush you know it's like
riding a roller coaster for the first time you know it's like oh I got over it
yay no but you're petrified before that but afterwards it's like exhilarating
and that's what singers need to learn and performance you to learn is you have
to do it in a want to go out and do it and have a lot of fun
tremendous well this has been such a fascinating glimpse into the world of
performance and performance based training thank you so much for joining
us today Kevin oh you're very welcome I enjoyed it immensely
I don't have fun musical you are and how to improve checklist what did you think
Kevin's perspective really casts a different light on the whole subject of
performance stuff on it let's unpack a little kevin was always a comfortable
singer growing up but he actually started out on drums and then was thrust
into being a lead singer as needed by the band he was writing songs for
although he had always sung casually he realized in the very first band practice
how much he had to learn when his voice ran out after just 40 minutes skip
forwards a few years and he went on to book a six-week international tour with
a band that had actually already broken up despite some relationship challenges
among the band members they had a successful tour and it taught him a lot
about the business side and practicalities of touring something that
he's now able to help his students with - as he studied singing and went on to
start teaching he found that a lot of the material out there focused
exclusively on the method the technique side of being a singer and
while there was guidance for classical singers on performing there really
wasn't much to help people in contemporary styles we talked about the
mismatch between the pristine teaching environment where you can have perfect
posture and breathing and the real world situations where you're onstage as a
rock frontman or in a theater playing a hunchback role where suddenly that
pristine environment seems worlds away and you somehow still have to deliver a
solid performance I loved Kevin's insight on this that
confidence stems from knowing your capabilities and practicing beyond the
level that will be required of you he gave the example of pitch range where if
you know the top note you're gonna need to sing don't just practice up to that
note practice beyond it so that when it comes time to perform that note is
actually comfortably within your abilities I think this is a lesson that
can be applied in a ton of different ways in music learning and really gives
a key insight into the practical steps you can take to learn confidence whether
or not it comes naturally to you Kevin gave a wonderful description of
what it means to do performance-based vocal coaching putting a student in real
stage environments with the actual props and posture and movements they'd be
doing in the live situation and then even taking them beyond that out to open
mics or want the streets of New York to help them get past any anxiety they
might have about performing in front of an audience as he put it you need to
learn that mistakes will happen and you can move past them it's not the end of
the world and once you internalize that it's a lot
easier to play the role of frontman or stage performer it was really cool
hearing him talk about specific well-known artists such as Bono Prince
Rod Stewart Freddie Mercury people I think we'd all assume were just natural
born performers but whether they found easy at the beginning or not it's clear
from his examples that they all consciously worked at the craft of
performance developing their stage presence and behavior learning from what
worked and gradually improving and refining over time and whether it's
these examples or Kevin's own store of going from teenage Churchmouse to
international touring lead singer and world famous performance coach I hope
you can draw inspiration and encouragement that you too can learn to
be whatever level of performer you deep down wish to be I asked Kevin what had
stood out to him most working with Rod Stewart and his answer was have fun now
this is a message that we've talked about on the show before and it came up
a few times in our hundredth episode celebration where we heard from multiple
experts on what it takes to tap in to your inner musicality but I think
Kevin's point here went beyond the surface level in a really interesting
way taking Rod Stewart and Bette Midler as examples and set against the context
of everything he had said about learning to perform and consciously intentionally
developing that ability and skill set the message wasn't just hey relax have
fun with it which is good because I know any of you
who felt too nervous to perform would be a bit irritated by that unhelpful advice
instead it was these skills are learn about it's hard work and it's step by
step and you're going to have to go beyond your comfort zone but all that
pays off and ultimately it's all about the performance the practicing itself
can be enjoyable but the big point is that the payoff comes in the Performing
when you step out there and share your music with an audience and you see their
response that's the fun that keeps Rod Stewart at it after so many years as a
world-class performer that's the fun that Kevin helps his students to
discover whether they're right at the beginning or they're already out there
performing and I hope you'll take that idea away with you from this
conversation that performing doesn't have to be intimidating and it certainly
doesn't have to be something that comes naturally it can be learned and learning
it can lead to tremendous musical fun you can learn more about Kevin's
teaching including one-to-one lessons in-person and online at rpm vocal Studio
comm and you can explore his vocal training products at the Vox shop Vox
spelled v0x the Vox shop
we'll have links to those as well as Kevin's YouTube channel in the show
notes for this episode at musicality podcast comm thanks for listening to
this episode and I'll see you on the next one thank you for listening to the
musicality podcast this episode has ended but your musical journey continues
head over to musicality podcast comm where you will find the links and
resources mentioned in this episode as well as bonus content exclusive for
podcast listener
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét