hi its Jill Schlesinger on this episode we're talking about how to take control
of your financial life and maybe help you retire earlier than you would ever
think money is something that there's so much fear so much emotion people think
it's so complicated I truly believe that anything in life money is the pathway to
freedom money gives you time and space but money only matters if it helps you
live a life that you love welcome to the Jill on Money podcast
today we are talking about that fire movement remember not the fire thing the
festival fire financial independence retire early we've got one of the
leaders of the movement grant Sabatier he's just written a book called
financial freedom a proven path to all the money you will ever need his story
is amazing the interview was wonderful and hey it's official my book is out the
dumb thing smart people do with their money 13 ways to write your financial
wrong so you can get it anywhere you want any place you buy your books the
dumb thing smart people do with their money on sale now here's our interview
with Grant Sabatier you're listening to Jill on money with
Jill Schlesinger grant welcome to the program how are you I'm great glad to be
here so we start with a very easy question for someone like you which is
what is the best financial decision you've ever made the best financial
decision I ever made is to order one book I googled the best money books and
the first book that came up was your money or your life by Vicki Robin and
the book completely changed my life Vicki is now a co-creator with me a good
friend we're working on some projects together and just that one book
completely transformed my life okay before we get into the transformation
let's talk about the life so talk about kind of your upbringing and your
relationship to money prior to googling that book and buying it sure so my
parents let me start there really quickly they grew up in rural Indiana
like one-stoplight town had nothing growing up we're very poor like one pair
of pants per year type four and then they ended up having me after not
thinking they could have kids they got pregnant in their late 20s
and decided that they wanted to give me a different opportunity and so they
moved from rural India and I left all their families the only people who've
ever done this and they moved to the suburbs of Washington DC and my mom was
a secretary for a number of years and my dad actually cleaned office buildings
and so they really kind of started from the bottom and I was always in my class
the kid with the least amount of money I never felt deprived I always felt like I
had opportunities I knew my parents were making a lot of sacrifices for me but I
could tell that being outside the DC suburbs there was quite a bit of money
that I you know always had the least amount of my soccer team money was
something that stressed my parents out they talked about it you know something
that was always very present and my father used to tell me two things when I
was a kid these are some of my earliest memories life is a beach and money is
freedom and I didn't know as like a five-year-old kid when either of those
men and I actually had the opportunity last year when I launched my financial
freedom podcast to bring my dad on as the first guest and I asked him I said
what did you mean by money is freedom and so he got to unpack you know how he
always viewed money and was diligent about saving even though he didn't make
a lot and so it's it's not lost on me or anyone that I you know had such a kind
of intimate relationship with money from a young age and it's always something
that I've been fascinated by and now I feel grateful that I you know I'm able
to do this did you feel stress when you were young about money I didn't feel
stress but I felt my parents stress certainly I was an only child you know
we were kind of the three of us we were a unit and so I knew it was something
that stressed them out everything from I remember one year they had a hard time
making the payment for my soccer team you know I remember that very vividly
and so it was always something but on the flip side I knew that they were
giving the opportunity so that was always kind of embedded in me and then
when you fast forward and I had to move back home at 24 I felt quite a bit of
shame around they had given me so much opportunity and made so many sacrifices
for me and my parents are in their mid-60s now and they're still both
working you know they didn't start saving for retirement until they were in
their 50s and you know they've done incredibly well with what they had and
I'm extremely proud of them but certainly money was something that was
was very stressful in our house so you grew up
outside of DC in the suburbs and then you went to college
yep and where did that take you yeah so I was kind of the kid who did everything
he was supposed to do you know worked hard
curious graduated number-two in my class I'd end up going to the University of
Chicago I really wanted to get a job by the time I graduated college and I got
one at a company two hours outside of Chicago and one of the northern suburbs
that you know when you call them to Airlines or any company and it's like
this call may be monitored for quality assurance I worked for the company that
listened to those calls and say that's what I did like is it's sort of some
dystopian situation where I was commuting waking up at 4:00 every day so
it was the job that I got I was excited I was making $42,000 but I ended up
bouncing around for different jobs over about a three year period because I
never quite found the right fit I mean that commute really killed me I ended up
getting laid off seven months later because I wasn't going through enough
calls and so that's I wasn't making the company enough money and then I went to
another somewhat related company and I couldn't kind of find my fit I really
wanted to be a writer that's what I really wanted to do so I was writing
fiction I was you know trying to do that on the side but that work ended up being
so sort of soul-crushing space to do that how many years did you bounce
around like that it's like two and a half almost three years at that point
did you say I got a move like I got a move home or because because financial
reality or because you just wanted I mean sometimes you just want to nest you
want to like I want to regroup and there's nothing wrong with that so what
was the motivation for you to go back home I just completely ran out of money
I got had four hundred dollars and I wasn't going to be able to pay my rent
and my girlfriend is now my wife she was like had roommates and so I couldn't
really crash there and you know it became a situation where she was a
little like what are you doing with your life she was in graduate school at the
time and so I moved back to my parents had a reset they said that I could stay
there for three months which i think is amazing in the book I read that and I
was like I thought that was an interesting thing that it really they're
like okay the clock is ticking here we go and you're gonna contribute also to
this household right yeah and my father actually said it was one of the toughest
things that he had to do as a parent being like we're not gonna give you any
money you know I probably would have like blasted out of there you know
anyway as quickly as I could because I just had so much emotion around it and I
didn't want to be twenty four living back with my parents but you know they
made sure obviously putting that bookend that hey you know you got to take this
seriously you got to get out and they didn't really ask me much how things
were going during the period didn't nag you know they didn't nag me but like you
know we come down I feel like a child like sitting down at dinner you know
we'd sit around and we'd be talking about something else but you could tell
you know when you're talking to someone and then look in their face they're
thinking about four other things yeah say the boy here's your mother's
like I want to ask him how many job interviews he but I don't want to say
that because that's gonna make him go off right and just worry just general
worry in their eyes just kind of like concern of like is he okay
you know what's he going to do so I felt all of that and also I knew how much my
parents had sacrificed for me and so I had that kind of double whammy where
it's like okay you know always kind of doing well by them was important to me
it's like you're the good boy and you've got that great guilt that's firing you
up so and also as you said you know you're hyper focused on projects so
explain what happened after the Vicki Robin moment what was going on in your
head and your heart when you got through that book so the big takeaway that
you're trading your life energy for money it was just a huge wake-up call
for me I was like okay I can always kind of go out and make more money but I'm 24
I'm never gonna get back the time in my life I'm in the prime of my life and my
takeaway from the book was actually different than Vicki intended and she's
always like you know kind of getting on me for this because my takeaway was like
okay if I'm trading my time for money I need to make as much money as possible
for my time and she actually wrote the book to help activists and socially
conscious people get enough money so then they could do the good work of
changing the world and here I come along and I'm just like now I'm on that path
that I was just like okay I need to make as much money as possible so I looked at
my skill set and I'd applied to over 200 jobs to 200 and had I actually looked
when I was writing the book I went back and looked at my email account and I
looked at some of the jobs that I had applied to because I still had the
resume in there and one of the jobs was to be
an apprentice at a florist in Chicago and now I think I'm like I've gotten
that job I mean that is how like wide I was going if I gotten that job maybe I'd
be a florist well maybe maybe you'd be really happy who knows right you know
but - so you want over 200 so for 200 so I was like okay I need a new skill set I
need to figure something out and so I just was doing a simple google search on
my phone and I saw a Google mobile ad and they were pretty new at the time
this is 2010 and I was like oh what's this I hadn't seen in Google ad on my
phone so then I just googled Google mobile ad and the first thing that came
up was an article from emarketer that was like Google campaign management jobs
are gonna grow 300 percent by 2020 I was like oh wow there's demand for people to
do this what is this second result Google AdWords University which is
basically I watched a two-minute video on how Google advertising works and it's
actually really fascinating because it's really competitive it's a real-time
auction bidding system and I was like oh this is really cool and then next to it
it was like do you want a job running Google campaigns get Google AdWords
certified for free and so you could take a test that Google administered for free
and if you got certification you know you could put on your resume and so I
looked at it briefly and I was like oh wow this would take me about an hour to
do and they had all the free tutorials and all the videos so I spent the next
thirty days watching every single video in the AdWords University and also
watching additional videos on YouTube completely over prepared for the test I
mean I probably could have taken it after the first week I got certified
then I just googled Google ad campaign manager job Chicago because I wanted to
go back to Chicago kids a girlfriend is there exactly I applied to three jobs
but the first one that I applied to I ended up getting about a week and a half
later oh my god that was it and then I was making $50,000 working for a
25-person digital marketing agency actually running Google AdWords
campaigns for the largest Cubs Chicago Cubs merchandiser in the country and so
I was like coming a master at that and that next year when I worked at this
agency it was like getting a PhD in digital marketing because I have spent
time with all the people in the company and just really soaked it up to come out
of the experience you just had and actually love what you did yeah it's
pretty fortunate love I think love and like are different I think I like that
right like I think what I thought was coolest was that
you can get 20% of media spend to run Google campaigns so I actually figured
that I could probably make more money faster doing this than even being like a
financial adviser if I could get someone to spend a
million dollars I would get $200,000 okay and I'd set the goal when I was at
my parents to save a million dollars and retire as quickly as possible I didn't
know what that meant but I am iliyan dollars was like my goal and so once I
saw that I was like okay I only need to sell five million dollars worth of media
spend and I'll have made a million dollars at least in fees and so I looked
at it in those types of chunks and so I was off to the races and it's a highly
profitable business and so I was really attracted by that as well when you
thought to yourself a million dollars financial independence did you really
know it what that meant or was it just like I want a million dollars because
it's a good round number yeah it was that simple I mean it was just like I
want to save a million dollars and I'm gonna figure this I'm gonna see I'm
gonna try to get there as quickly as possible I also had already through your
money or your life bought into the idea of how much is enough and so going into
my first job immediately even making $50,000 I was saving sixty percent of my
income how was that possible because you're shacking up with a girlfriend at
that time shacked up with the girlfriend and then I ended up upsetting a roommate
so I got kicked out of that apartment so I get my own apartment so I got an $800
a month apartment in Chicago that was really kind of crappy in a bad
neighborhood I needed a car and so I got an $800 Nissan Maxima and I just I was
working all the time so I wasn't slightly spent no money
I was either like working or reading about money because I knew I figured out
that I could actually accelerate the rate of compounding and that was a huge
moment for me so I didn't know what kind of where I was going the million dollars
is what I wanted to save I knew I was I was saving a high percentage of my
income but then I did the math and I was like even saving 60% of my $50,000
income it's gonna take me maybe 22 years to get there so I need to make more
money and then and so how did you make more money oh yeah so this is the fun
part so three months in I'd learned enough about digital marketing I'd
learned how to build my first website I was building WordPress websites which
now are really easy you can do with one click it was easy back then but you
still had to do it and so I went on Craigslist and I literally just searched
in the classified a section and there was a lawyer who was
looking for a website Laura needs website need $500 budget reached out to
him I was like I'll do it and so I basically paid to learn how to build a
website so I used a template that I bought for $49 i customized it I
delivered the website to him he was super happy and I was like hey do you
have anyone else that you know that needs websites he goes I might so
through the next three months he introduced me to some of his friends and
I got hooked into a local Association of realtor's in Chicago and at the end of
that next three months so I'd been six months since I learned digital marketing
I sold my first $50,000 website oh that's awesome and so I had made more
money in this one and it's so funny because I sold the project and basically
I told him it would take at least you know a month and a half to deliver maybe
a month month and a half and I finished it in four days and so I actually had to
wait two and a half weeks and I usually but that was like a lot of people like
how did you go from $500 to 50,000 I was like I had nothing to lose and then I
started to unpack really what motivates people to buy and the perception of
value and I you know I was I'm like a I really try to figure out how people
think and I realized that the woman who was buying the website for me the head
of marketing for this law firm she wanted a nice website but that was table
stakes what she really wanted was to look good to her partners and so I
focused on selling her on the idea that hey once a week I'm gonna send you an
email that you can send to your boss right you know right here in like I'm
gonna give you the metrics to deliver absolutely ended up building my whole
career on that where I focused on it doesn't matter how hard you work in life
and everything that happens behind the door what matters is the perception of
the value of what you're selling for the person you're selling it to and so I
really fell in love with that and sales strategy and storytelling and by the end
of that first year I was making fifty thousand dollars is my salary but I'd
made over three hundred thousand dollars running Google AdWords campaigns for
realtor's for a dentist office you know I was had my hands and a lot of
different things and at this time your girlfriend's in grad school right she's
in grad school yeah she's working hard so you go work fine I got things to do
right right okay so that wasn't it wasn't like there because some people
would be like maybe have stress in your relationship if you're so plunged in but
if you're both killing yourselves and working really hard it's kind of like
great timing let's do it now while we're young and we got energy right yeah it's
perfect and so she works in academia and she was
actually doing a lot of her research overseas for two of the five years that
I became financially independent and that was actually really helpful because
it's like you're checking in with your partner once a week or a couple times a
week on skype and then you can just focus on I mean that's why this is so
much easier to become financially independent for someone in their 20s
doesn't mean that you can't do it or shouldn't you know pursue it in your 30s
and 40s but I went all-in and I made trade-offs that I wouldn't
make again and I also in writing the book realized that I didn't even need
millions of dollars or to be financially independent I already had so many of the
benefits of what I was looking for early on I just was so driven to get there and
one of the things is you don't need millions of dollars to feel free and
it's a great point I mean I just interviewed this woman who wrote a
really interesting book about the state of Employment right now right it's
called the job and one of the things that she talked about was that
Millennials especially or just so have so much anxiety around their work life
sure and it's and obviously if you're feeling anxiety you don't perform at
your peak right right but they she also said that one of the things that people
crave is consistency and another thing they crave is to have some semblance of
control it sounds to me like you are more interested in the control factor
then you'll kill yourself working you don't need it to be someone sending you
a half a million dollar paycheck every year right but that you could be in
control seem to seems to be a big motivator for you yeah absolutely we all
have the illusion of control I mean the paradox is the most beautiful things in
life tend to be those things that are actually unexpected and so even though
we try to organize all areas and control everything in our life it's often those
unexpected things and so it took me becoming financially independent to
learn some of these deeper I'd say life lessons that I was just so hyper-focused
um I actually talked a lot about burnout in the book you know I feel like
especially for Millennials I just turned 34 I'm on the older end of Millennials
called you I feel like the experience that I have a couple years later then it
catches up with the rest of the generation and so it's pretty
interesting like I am the digital native I got a used laptop when I was 7 years
old I mean I
and I'm most comfortable in my life at my computer keyboard literally and
that's one of the things that I think now we're reaching a point where money
as a pathway to freedom you don't need millions of dollars just having six
months of expenses or a year of expenses gives you so many more options and I
knew that but I was just you know really on this path to escape when now looking
back it's like I would have done a much more balanced job
I think of along the way I I honestly I lost my you know half of my twenties on
this and I feel grateful that now I have the ability to you know do what I want
with my life and I think the sacrifice was more of an opportunity it was worth
it but you know I didn't go to the concerts with my friends that now I kind
of wish I would have I didn't one of the things you don't realize when you're in
your twenties is that AI had so much energy then and I took advantage of it
but you don't realize how much you're going to grow and change you know as a
person and so I was like oh I'll always have that opportunity and now the
friends that I could have gone to you know Coachella with or you know Bonnaroo
all these festivals and travel Europe with one of my good friends in the
middle of this wanted me to go on this trip for two months to Europe I didn't
go with him and now you realize okay now all my friends have families and now
they're not in that same headspace you kind of think you're always going to
have these opportunities and so that's one of the reasons why I think a more
balanced approach I'm by far kind of on the extreme end but I feel like an
explorer like I've gone to the edge of money literally the edge of money I've
unpacked this human invention I've looked at it from every angle I've read
all the books I've talked to thousands of people written you know over 700,000
words about it now and now I've been to the edge and I've come kind of back from
the edge and this is my report and so from your report in financial freedom a
proven path to all the money you will ever need who are you writing this for
I'm writing it for everyone you know I started writing it for my 24 year old
self and then since I started millennial money in 2015 I've had over 17,000
reader emails of people I got one this morning that just literally brought me
to tears and these are people there's so many people out there struggling with
money in their life and money is something that
there's so much fear so much emotion people think it's so complicated and I
you know it's why I dedicated the book to anyone who stressed about money and
wants more from life like I hear you like I'm writing it for people who feel
stuck in their life and and and are looking for that breath of air because I
truly believe that money anything in life money is the pathway to freedom
money gives you time and space but money only matters if it helps you live a life
that you love and so changing your relationship with money and and this is
going against and I feel this way even now in talking about the book everything
almost everything that the money world and the personal finance world has told
you your entire life and I feel like I'm walking up a rapid filled River with
this message because this is not a great message for the banks this is not a
great but this is a message of empowerment and financial literacy as a
human right this is here's a guy whose parents had nothing
who gave him an opportunity who's never taken a finance class or worked with a
banker who found a path out and there's a door now there's a window and that
path is getting wider and more and more people are going down this path and
they're starting to live life on their own terms and when you live life on your
own terms it's it's goes counter to this sort of narrative the common success
narrative of you always have to chase the next dollar the job promotion and
one of the things I looked out at the world and saw my parents burnt out and
everyone burnt out and no one being able to retire and I was like clearly what's
been shared in the mainstream isn't working and there's no maybe it did work
but it's no longer working and so instead of making a right turn I decided
to make a left and I meet resistance at every level in what way so tell me the
kind of resistance that you get yeah so I don't get love like I hug you when you
walked oh I get love I got a lot of love from the people like me like other parts
like I think what you're doing is amazing it really is and I think that I
think that look I guess what you just said that really hit me is that you want
to basically empower somebody but you don't say that being rich is empowerment
you say like your knowledge your ability to make a difference it doesn't mean
you know sometimes when I I come off the air you know someone will say to me but
like I just can't put away $50 a week I really can't afford it
right and I'm like well what do you think you can afford mm-hmm but just
tell me what you think well I could do 10 or a great do 10 right like do
something so you feel like you're controlling some piece of your financial
life so what is the pushback that you getting I mean the message is so perfect
I don't get what like would push back against it I think people who are afraid
of truly going inside and questioning their life I think it's so easy in life
to chase that next thing it makes us feel good it's always easier to kind of
like close our eyes and try to get the next job promotion or the next dollar
amount the tougher work is to stop and actually unpack what does make you happy
what do you actually want in life because the most important question
isn't how much money do you need the most important question is what kind of
life do you want to live and then how much money do you need to live that life
and a lot of people don't know what makes them happy and they don't know
they're why or their purpose and we live in a culture now it's like be happy be
happy be happy be happy but happiness shouldn't be the goal to be fully alive
should be the goal right I mean that your life is not peaches and cream life
is hard and there are hard things you went through a really hard time in your
life total your parents have had hard times in their life but that is life
it's not like you cannot be she's like choose to be happy like I always thought
that was such BS like bad crap happens like I'm gonna be happy about that
right right the whole idea I realized through this whole process that it
really what I was chasing it wasn't about the money at all I was looking for
peace and it comes back to this idea I felt like I needed a lot more money than
in reality I probably did to feel at peace and so a lot of people in their
life that I talked to so many people they don't have enough money saved and
they feel stuck they've built their debt responsibilities and they feel stuck in
their life and when you're stuck in life it's incredibly hard to get perspective
on your life and so money the whole idea of the seven levels of financial freedom
forget the million dollars in financial independence just get to that next level
and the most important one is level three which is breathing room and that's
when you have six months of expenses and it might take you a year or two years to
get there that is an extremely noble goal forget about the world telling you
you need five million dollars to retire forget about all that and this is
one of the biggest things this has drove me crazy is that like the entire
personal finance world tells you to budget and cut back on all those small
little purchases but it's those purchases that make up life and give you
the most joy you know I love the Murray condos like blowing up again because
it's like I feel like she and I need to get a room together it's like one of my
life goals right now but it's true because the small things like the cup of
coffee or the glass of wine or the concert tickets
those are the things that make us happy Asst I agree with you world I totally
agree I've had I was talking about like marketing my own book and I look sort of
an offhanded way I said to my editor I'm like if you feel like you're counting
lattes you've lost that is the most the the part of me that's like I'm not I'm
not here to tell you not to have fun I agree with you like figure out what
makes you happy if that latte makes you happy then maybe something else has to
give but like go have a latte with your friends right have fun right and he
exactly have fun enjoy your life but the thing is a lot of the money world that I
found and I'm part of the money world now but I'm operating in my own terms is
you know 90 plus percent of it I think is scam me greedy money follows money
and so that's the the rapid filled stream that I'm walking up you know I
went to I was invited to a wealth summit and I just saw recently three thousand
people I was supposed to speak at it and then I declined right before I went on
because I saw they were selling these scammy products to people you know tax
liens software stuff that like people just starting investing should never buy
and I think that like most of the money world and what people see is that and so
trying to speak kind of truth within that is where you get the blowback um
even you know running Facebook ads for example for my book continued to get
banned the Facebook ads and I actually had to have a call with Facebook because
like 99% of the people that advertise a money book on Facebook they're scamming
me they're using it for top of the funnel to sell and I don't sell a 10,000
Kay package I don't do money coaching I'm not an advisor I have nothing at
stake here beautiful share exactly like a $14 book I have nothing that I make
two dollars from you know I mean like I'm not making any money off of this I'm
just trying to get this to his broad base of people it's possible but
fighting that resistance fighting money is very powerful because
it's it's it's profitable to keep people in the dark and this is one of the
things I'd love maybe was child to some other time I'm researching it now but I
can't prove this yet but when the United States education system was set up I
believe and I have some evidence to this that the people who were in the original
Board of Education three of them were part of the largest banks in the country
and financial literacy financial education was actually proposed as one
of those core curriculum topics like history and they pulled it off the table
because they've wanted to keep people in the dark and it's taken now you know
over a hundred years for even some states to have you know financial
education but even still a lot of those financial education programs are
underwritten by large financial institutions that you know it's a it's a
tough world and I'm just trying to shine a light and really empower people
because you money all it is money is a human invention it didn't exist you know
five thousand years it's just a human invention and our culture embeds it was
so much power and meaning and stress and fear but you can choose what money means
to you you have that power you don't have to you don't have to buy into the
fear of how you grew up around it or money's bad or money's good like money
can be literally whatever you want it to be yes it's a means to an exchange to
get you somewhere but the emotions you put into it and that's one of the things
I recommend spending five minutes a day with your money I did it this morning
when I had my first cup of coffee I call it now my money meditation where it's
like just spending five minutes a day with your money it starts to become more
familiar to you and what is that what does that mean for you when you say
spend five minutes with my money yeah so I just open up my mint personal tracking
app and just look at my net worth and you know what I spent yesterday and what
charges have come in and all my investments and it's just like spending
time with a close friend it's like spinning and demystifying a topic that
for many people is super scary and and breeds anxiety yeah exactly and it's
something when you spend five minutes a day with it money starts to be something
that's not this abstract stressful thing it's something familiar you know it and
then actually I spend the rest of my day spending less because I'm interested in
my net worth growing and it's something that is kind of weird for the first
thirty days but after thirty days you actually get excited to look at your
money because you start seeing it go up you
more intimate you feel more close feels like a familiar friend and the closer we
get with money the better relationship we end up having with it then the less
emotional we are about investing so let me ask you a question is your wife as
into money as you are absolutely not she thinks I'm so weird see things I'm
so weird what is her field of study she's an anthropologist so she's she
actually studies you know of social systems and people and she studies money
in in some capacity she grew up kind of differently than I did and she rich girl
no she's not a rich girl she just grew up differently than I did and so she
also doesn't quite understand the attractiveness of getting out she's an
academia it's something if she's she's kind of you know when you get into
academia if you get the right position you kind of that's like you kind of win
the lottery and for me it was like getting to this point of escape and one
of the things that's taken some time to do is I talk very openly about money I
think we money should be talked about I think people should share their
successes and you know in the book I have every investment that I made over
the five-year period how much I saved all these things and that's like I think
being transparent the more we open up and talk about our struggles and what's
happening the more people are gonna learn and that's one of the things that
you know even with my wife I get resistance around do you guys ever fight
about money um not really you have it which is good usually I feel
like people fight a lot more when they don't have it yeah I think the only
thing so we're both frugal I think that I money has diminishing returns for me
so it's one of those things where I have more money than I'll ever need now it's
something I paradoxically don't even think about that much in terms of my own
money you know you would think every day I'd be tinkering everything like an
investor but now I just have things all set up and occasionally like I'll spend
a Saturday you know just like digging in and moving things around and playing
with it but it's it's not something like moving to New York City I moved here six
months ago has that been it's great I found a great
apartment good deal I'm probably not gonna buy in New York City for a while
I'm looking the Hudson River Valley but it was one
of those situations where it's like yes we can afford a you know very expensive
apartment but my whole ethos and mindset and mentality is like I value money so
much that I wouldn't even say I'm frugal just value money so much that I always
try to use it to its best use I rely room I know that I've traded my life for
that money and so for me the challenge is actually finding those opportunities
and knowing when to you know splurge or spend more money because I'm naturally
just don't think about it that much the thing is the craziest thing about is
like the more money I've had I realized that just having the ability to buy
something is enough so I'll drop money like I went to Seattle a couple weeks
ago last minute and I first-class round-trip ticket you know it's like
$3,000 and yeah you're okay with that do it you do it oh yeah I was tired and
I wanted to sleep on the plane and be refreshed there so I'd get more time out
of it and like that's something where I just boom drop yes but you know I spend
less than $300 a year on clothes and that's that's something my wife gets
some issues like why do you have nicer suits and why don't you do this and I'm
just like well you know that's just like not Who I am right and so there's some
challenges there but I think I think we've got a good rhythm going all right
well that's good now before I let you go your best financial decision which is
like it's always sort of mind blowing there's like picking up this book and it
changes your life what was the worst financial decision you've ever made
craving money above all else I think money became my god during this
five-year period it's something that I money can be really addicting chasing
financial independence can be really addicting money addiction has many forms
and I think I made a lot of trade-offs that I wouldn't make again and it's
something yeah it gets addicting and I fell into that trap of more more and
more in a way luckily I kind of had an escape hatch in mind but I think it's
always important to realize that life is so much more valuable than money time is
so much more valuable than money and that's it was so beautiful writing
book because I was able to reflect back maybe like whoa you know what was the
best piece of money advice you got as a child um money doesn't grow on trees I
think you know it was just the fact that you know you have to work for it I
always valued money you know I had like you know two dollar allowance and you
know these things and I saved and would buy the new video game you know I saw I
understood and valued money but yeah I think the biggest and just the biggest
lesson that I learned this entire time was just the correlation between savings
rate and years to financial independence I think it's so interesting is that you
know there's so much to your point about how the the business of of getting
people to invest is one thing in and I don't think that people realize how much
better off you are just by saving I mean forgetting about whether you have ABC
mutual fund or XYZ mutual fund saving is your salvation that is what will get you
to the next place we're at over that place you whatever you define that goal
to be right if you save you will get there faster my fear is that people
sometimes will say to me like well I don't have enough money so I just want
to like you know basically put all my money on number eight black and hope
that comes in right and like dude just save yes get there but savings kind of
perceived as boring and boring but once again it's like look at how the personal
finance world sells it there's with budgeting save cut back there's this
whole scarcity mindset we're saving it's really an opportunity buying like
genetically biologically we're not designed to save we're not designed our
minds literally can't comprehend seven figure numbers you know there's some of
these things that like our minds can't get and saving for the future is not
something we're wired to do and so you have to kind of rewire yourself a little
bit and also set up automated systems you know we've talked about a little bit
about that so you don't have to think about it as much but it's one of those
things where anything in life you just need to get a little bit of momentum and
this is why I recommend the correlation between savings rate and years to
retirement the average American saves 3.2 percent
of their income if they can just get to 10%
you know you've cut 15 years off the retirement you've gone from never
to actually making it possible if you were like how does that happen
just save 1% every 30 days and you're never gonna feel it you know it's
amazing to me like when I think about it's probably your grandparents but my
parents it's like they used to have rules of thumb save a dime for every
dollar you make right and guess what as it turns out that was really good advice
that's not enough you start with like instilling that notion right they were
fighting fewer forces yeah I have credit cards till the 50s we didn't have online
one-click ordering you know until like 15 years ago and so it's never been
easier to make money it's also never been easier to spend it so our
grandparents had it easy in that sense so but yeah depression and all big deal
had different values I think they had different values I think that there were
simpler times in many ways and I think that what you are advocating here is so
laudable I am so happy that we got you in the studio I'm very exciting grant
Sabo ta yep that's it right that's it all right well thank you so much for
joining yeah thanks for having me Joe thanks so much to grant Sabatier that
book is called financial freedom if you've got a financial question if you
want to learn how to gain that financial independence why don't you shoot us an
email it's so easy ask Jill at Jill on money.com ask Jill at Jill on money.com
we drop new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday our music is composed by joel
goodman mark Taleo is our executive producer and we're distributed by
cadence 13 thanks for listening
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